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But Turkey is not a democracy?

by hyko 6y ago

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
brnt 6y ago
https://freedomhouse.org/country/turkey/freedom-world/2020 https://freedomhouse.org/country/turkey/freedom-world/2020
- hansjorg 6y ago
  Their opinions on Turkey might be fair, but beware that Freedom House is basically an arm of the US State Department.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    If you’re not going to contest their conclusions, what was the point of bringing that up?
    - SahAssar 6y ago
      Acknowledging bias is worthwhile even if the conclusion might be the same.
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        It’s also a good way to cast doubt on something indirectly, without having to explicitly enumerate any factual disagreements.
        hansjorg 6y ago
        This is a GO masquerading as an NGO. A caveat lector is appropriate whenever someone brings them up.
        brnt 6y ago
        I was with you until your used to word 'masquerading'. Nothing about Freedom House is a masquerade. If you don't share sources, then don't please write such things. [edit] Can't reply below: Freedom House is NOT the State Department. They're a funder, but not the only one. So your description still in incorrect or requires sourcing.
        hansjorg 6y ago
        They're masquerading in the sense that a newspaper will write 'According to NGO Freedom House...' rather than 'According to the US State Department'. They're not masquerading in the sense that they try to hide where the money comes from, but to the majority that read their materials, this won't be apparent.
        enraged_camel 6y ago
        >>I was with you until your used to word 'masquerading'. Nothing about Freedom House is a masquerade. If they are a government organization then the domain needs to be .gov. .org gives the perception of NGO.
        ferzul 6y ago
        you can reply below; you just need to click on the post's time to get the post in a new page.
- hyko 6y ago
  See also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
m_a_g 6y ago
Turkey has been a democracy for almost a century now. However, it all comes down to this, what happens when people of a democratic country elect a president that has totalitarian tendencies?
- SecurityMinded 6y ago
  On the paper, Turkiye is a democracy. In reality, since 1950's it was not. It is a dictatorship or oligarchy at best, funded by the big money of the world, mostly from the US. Rigged elections, placing puppet governments (like Tayyip) is an ongoing theme. At the time of election, people are given the impression of who they are electing as it is in a democracy, while the result is already known by the powers that be. Other than few military takeovers of the country since 1960, this country have never had fair and clear elections. Hence, Tayyip's puppet government has ben brought to action by the same powers that be, to decimate the Turkish armed forces, so, no more of those nasty military take-over actions can be repeated. Turkiye has turned into a Banana republic for what it is worth.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    If Turkey is a puppet, who's holding the strings?
    - zentiggr 6y ago
      What does their export market and foreign currency reserves tell you? (I don't know myself, just suggesting the points of leverage.)
      - nurettin 6y ago
        FX reserves tell us whatever every country's FX tell us. That countries have forex, gold and bond reserves to protect the value of their currency. It can also work in the opposite direction. India and US keep large sums of gold. Greece kept large sums of US govt. bonds (until 2008 market crash at which point they found out this was a bad idea). Japan's Abe is famous for auctioning huge reserves of JPY in order to reduce the value of their currency and stock up on USD. Reduced currency value means their exports became temporarily cheaper and this way they got an artificial boost to their production industry. This is a complex subject and doesn't show that "country X is the puppet of country Y", it rather shows how they like to strategize for their own benefit.
netcan 6y ago
> Turkey is not a democracy? It's a democracy in terms of the electoral process, mostly... at least historically. Flawed, but the people select their leaders by election. It's not really a democracy in terms of political culture and rights. Very weak free speech, right to organize, right to assemble, freedom of the press, etc. They jail a lot of journalists, on charges like "subliminal messages announcing the military coup."
briefcomment 6y ago
Edited for clarification.
pnako 6y ago
"Democracy is like a train: when you reach your destination, you get off" -- Erdogan

But Turkey is not a democracy?

by hyko 6y ago

But Turkey is not a democracy?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

brnt 6y ago

https://freedomhouse.org/country/turkey/freedom-world/2020 https://freedomhouse.org/country/turkey/freedom-world/2020

hansjorg 6y ago
Their opinions on Turkey might be fair, but beware that Freedom House is basically an arm of the US State Department.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  If you’re not going to contest their conclusions, what was the point of bringing that up?
  - SahAssar 6y ago
    Acknowledging bias is worthwhile even if the conclusion might be the same.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      It’s also a good way to cast doubt on something indirectly, without having to explicitly enumerate any factual disagreements.
      - hansjorg 6y ago
        This is a GO masquerading as an NGO. A caveat lector is appropriate whenever someone brings them up.
        brnt 6y ago
        I was with you until your used to word 'masquerading'. Nothing about Freedom House is a masquerade. If you don't share sources, then don't please write such things. [edit] Can't reply below: Freedom House is NOT the State Department. They're a funder, but not the only one. So your description still in incorrect or requires sourcing.
        hansjorg 6y ago
        They're masquerading in the sense that a newspaper will write 'According to NGO Freedom House...' rather than 'According to the US State Department'. They're not masquerading in the sense that they try to hide where the money comes from, but to the majority that read their materials, this won't be apparent.
        enraged_camel 6y ago
        >>I was with you until your used to word 'masquerading'. Nothing about Freedom House is a masquerade. If they are a government organization then the domain needs to be .gov. .org gives the perception of NGO.
        ferzul 6y ago
        you can reply below; you just need to click on the post's time to get the post in a new page.
hyko 6y ago
See also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

m_a_g 6y ago

Turkey has been a democracy for almost a century now. However, it all comes down to this, what happens when people of a democratic country elect a president that has totalitarian tendencies?

SecurityMinded 6y ago
On the paper, Turkiye is a democracy. In reality, since 1950's it was not. It is a dictatorship or oligarchy at best, funded by the big money of the world, mostly from the US. Rigged elections, placing puppet governments (like Tayyip) is an ongoing theme. At the time of election, people are given the impression of who they are electing as it is in a democracy, while the result is already known by the powers that be. Other than few military takeovers of the country since 1960, this country have never had fair and clear elections. Hence, Tayyip's puppet government has ben brought to action by the same powers that be, to decimate the Turkish armed forces, so, no more of those nasty military take-over actions can be repeated. Turkiye has turned into a Banana republic for what it is worth.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  If Turkey is a puppet, who's holding the strings?
  - zentiggr 6y ago
    What does their export market and foreign currency reserves tell you? (I don't know myself, just suggesting the points of leverage.)
    - nurettin 6y ago
      FX reserves tell us whatever every country's FX tell us. That countries have forex, gold and bond reserves to protect the value of their currency. It can also work in the opposite direction. India and US keep large sums of gold. Greece kept large sums of US govt. bonds (until 2008 market crash at which point they found out this was a bad idea). Japan's Abe is famous for auctioning huge reserves of JPY in order to reduce the value of their currency and stock up on USD. Reduced currency value means their exports became temporarily cheaper and this way they got an artificial boost to their production industry. This is a complex subject and doesn't show that "country X is the puppet of country Y", it rather shows how they like to strategize for their own benefit.

netcan 6y ago

> Turkey is not a democracy? It's a democracy in terms of the electoral process, mostly... at least historically. Flawed, but the people select their leaders by election. It's not really a democracy in terms of political culture and rights. Very weak free speech, right to organize, right to assemble, freedom of the press, etc. They jail a lot of journalists, on charges like "subliminal messages announcing the military coup."

briefcomment 6y ago

Edited for clarification.

pnako 6y ago

"Democracy is like a train: when you reach your destination, you get off" -- Erdogan