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Nothing. Just like how Poland and Hungary are EU members and they are walking their own way not giving a f about anything, rewriting the constitutions and laws

Nothing. Just like how Poland and Hungary are EU members and they are walking their own way not giving a f about anything, rewriting the constitutions and laws as they wish

hetspookjee 6y ago
And completely backing each other in the votes as well... It's a sham.
- new2628 6y ago
  Yes, it's a sham that members of an organization are exercising their voting rights. Why not take away these rights in the name of democracy when they are not voting in the proper way.
lki876 6y ago
> Just like how Poland and Hungary are EU members and they are walking their own way not giving a f about anything, rewriting the constitutions and laws as they wish There are mechanisms in place to change constitutions and laws in all countries. The primary function of parliament is to legislate. In Poland, Hungary and the rest of the EU.
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  The problem (at least in Poland where I come from) is that the government/ruling party (PiS) are pushing laws that violate the constitution. The same party controls such bodies as consitution tribunal and the high court, as well as attorney general. They can do whatever they want without having to touch the constitution. They just ignore it.
zaarn 6y ago
They are because being kicked out of the EU requires unanimous vote and hungary and poland just veto eachother into the EU. Nobody expected two states to become fascist at the same time when the EU was created.
- new2628 6y ago
  This kind of exaggeration surely doesn't help the cause either.
  - ipnon 6y ago
    Anti-democratic ethnic nationalism doesn't sound as catchy and fascism is a historically loaded term.
    - new2628 6y ago
      Anti-democratic may also not be the best term when a majority of the people more or less support what you do. Illiberal, populist, protectionist, sure, but these do not sound nearly as bad.
      - ipnon 6y ago
        Authoritarian is a more descriptive term than anti-democratic.
- nix23 6y ago
  >Nobody expected two states to become fascist at the same time when the EU was created Since Germany and Italy was such a long time ago ;)
bluetomcat 6y ago
Bulgaria is another notable outlier. Formal EU member, democracy by constitution, government officials relatively well respected in Brussels. Inside - autocratic regime with no division of powers, facade institutions serving the interest of the political oligarchy, no authentic political parties representing the interests of the wider population.
- hetspookjee 6y ago
  I can remember Slovakia not doing all too well either on these grounds but couldn't find any so perhaps I'm mistaken.
- cat199 6y ago
  > facade institutions serving the interest of the political oligarchy seems in line with the EU approach, no?
- kebman 6y ago
  I remember about 10-15 years ago, I went there during their Liberation Day. There was a TV on, and I could understand most of what was said, due to having visited Bulgaria many times before. The guy was standing on a podium, between two eagles. First they played Flight of the Valkyries. Then the guy started speaking openly, and to wild cheering form the crowds, about how he wanted to send Turks and Gipsys back to the countries they came from. I was just, "Holy hell, this is on public TV in Bulgaria? What YEAR is this???" I had to ask the shop keeper. He told me the show was live.
  - bluetomcat 6y ago
    That was probably Volen Siderov, the founder of the first nationalist political party after the fall of communism. His "Ataka" party gained some serious momentum during 2005-2009, but is now largely defunct, with very little support, partly thanks to his inconsistent and outrightly rude behaviour. They always held rallies on the Liberation Day during those years and many Bulgarians were seeing "Ataka" as the only authentic party among all other creations of political engineering under the guidance of former state security.
ed_balls 6y ago
I don't think it's fare to compare Poland to Turkey. No one is jailing judges. It extremely hard to do a major judicial reform which is needed. The ruling party argument is that that the system of election the supreme court is flawed. There is a risk of deep state influence from the previous system and ties to Russia. When Germany was reunified they a purge of people with ties to DDR. Nothing like that happened in Poland.
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  The ruling party has ex-communists in their ranks and somehow that's ok with them. The whole argument about cleansing the judicial ranks is bogus and a vulgar excuse for a power grab.
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  Weren’t they messing with Supreme Court in Poland?

Nothing. Just like how Poland and Hungary are EU members and they are walking their own way not giving a f about anything, rewriting the constitutions and laws as they wish

hetspookjee 6y ago

And completely backing each other in the votes as well... It's a sham.

new2628 6y ago
Yes, it's a sham that members of an organization are exercising their voting rights. Why not take away these rights in the name of democracy when they are not voting in the proper way.

lki876 6y ago

> Just like how Poland and Hungary are EU members and they are walking their own way not giving a f about anything, rewriting the constitutions and laws as they wish There are mechanisms in place to change constitutions and laws in all countries. The primary function of parliament is to legislate. In Poland, Hungary and the rest of the EU.

bitcharmer 6y ago
The problem (at least in Poland where I come from) is that the government/ruling party (PiS) are pushing laws that violate the constitution. The same party controls such bodies as consitution tribunal and the high court, as well as attorney general. They can do whatever they want without having to touch the constitution. They just ignore it.

zaarn 6y ago

They are because being kicked out of the EU requires unanimous vote and hungary and poland just veto eachother into the EU. Nobody expected two states to become fascist at the same time when the EU was created.

new2628 6y ago
This kind of exaggeration surely doesn't help the cause either.
- ipnon 6y ago
  Anti-democratic ethnic nationalism doesn't sound as catchy and fascism is a historically loaded term.
  - new2628 6y ago
    Anti-democratic may also not be the best term when a majority of the people more or less support what you do. Illiberal, populist, protectionist, sure, but these do not sound nearly as bad.
    - ipnon 6y ago
      Authoritarian is a more descriptive term than anti-democratic.
nix23 6y ago
>Nobody expected two states to become fascist at the same time when the EU was created Since Germany and Italy was such a long time ago ;)

bluetomcat 6y ago

Bulgaria is another notable outlier. Formal EU member, democracy by constitution, government officials relatively well respected in Brussels. Inside - autocratic regime with no division of powers, facade institutions serving the interest of the political oligarchy, no authentic political parties representing the interests of the wider population.

hetspookjee 6y ago
I can remember Slovakia not doing all too well either on these grounds but couldn't find any so perhaps I'm mistaken.
cat199 6y ago
> facade institutions serving the interest of the political oligarchy seems in line with the EU approach, no?
kebman 6y ago
I remember about 10-15 years ago, I went there during their Liberation Day. There was a TV on, and I could understand most of what was said, due to having visited Bulgaria many times before. The guy was standing on a podium, between two eagles. First they played Flight of the Valkyries. Then the guy started speaking openly, and to wild cheering form the crowds, about how he wanted to send Turks and Gipsys back to the countries they came from. I was just, "Holy hell, this is on public TV in Bulgaria? What YEAR is this???" I had to ask the shop keeper. He told me the show was live.
- bluetomcat 6y ago
  That was probably Volen Siderov, the founder of the first nationalist political party after the fall of communism. His "Ataka" party gained some serious momentum during 2005-2009, but is now largely defunct, with very little support, partly thanks to his inconsistent and outrightly rude behaviour. They always held rallies on the Liberation Day during those years and many Bulgarians were seeing "Ataka" as the only authentic party among all other creations of political engineering under the guidance of former state security.

ed_balls 6y ago

I don't think it's fare to compare Poland to Turkey. No one is jailing judges. It extremely hard to do a major judicial reform which is needed. The ruling party argument is that that the system of election the supreme court is flawed. There is a risk of deep state influence from the previous system and ties to Russia. When Germany was reunified they a purge of people with ties to DDR. Nothing like that happened in Poland.

bitcharmer 6y ago
The ruling party has ex-communists in their ranks and somehow that's ok with them. The whole argument about cleansing the judicial ranks is bogus and a vulgar excuse for a power grab.
selimthegrim 6y ago
Weren’t they messing with Supreme Court in Poland?