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> there are many things that are not ideal I’ve never used vim, mind sharing what it’s weaknesses are?

me_me_me 6y ago
Code browsing and inspection is somewhat hampered by the fact its CLI. I use ctags and macros to move around code but its not always perfect. But then again there are many things I dislike in modern IDEs, I don't think there is a ideal solution, just like there is no one language to solve all problems.
- antonvs 6y ago
  There are graphical versions of vim. Gvim is my main editor. It's a bit of a hybrid, since many things that would exploit the GUI in an IDE are still textual in vim. But it has quite a few benefits over pure command line.
- tralarpa 6y ago
  > Code browsing and inspection is somewhat hampered by the fact its CLI. That's interesting because code browsing and inspection are by far the most important reason why I use a modern IDE. I tolerate all their weaknesses (slow, high memory consumption, errors after updates, etc.) because of this. I am surprised that somebody would say "I am using editor XYZ despite its weaknesses in code browsing and inspection".
  - mumblemumble 6y ago
    It's always seemed to me that vim and other lightweight editors are most popular among people who are working in dynamic and functional languages, and heavyweight IDEs are most popular among people who are working in big, static, enterprisey OO languages like C++, Java and C#. I don't think that's just a coincidence.
  - dhagz 6y ago
    What Vim lacks in browsing/inspecting code it makes up for with the speed you can make edits - using motions and macros can make tedious code changes nearly effortless. So it depends on what you value more.
  - badhombres 6y ago
    Vanilla Vim I would agree is not good for code browsing and inspection, but two things I've noticed when coding with Vim: 1. Code Browsing is an initial, one time cost when learning the code base. After you learn the code base, I've needed this ability much less. 2. Adding plugins like NERDTree and fzf/ripgrep have helped make code browsing much easier in Vim. The downside to this is that if you're new to Vim, you need to learn how to use these plugins on top of learning how to Vim. So it's just more to learn. But you can also think of this as another one time cost in general.
  - thedracle 6y ago
    This is true for me too, I would often use Vim to basically do quick modifications, and use an IDE for refactoring/completion, and code navigation. Recently a lot of quality plugins have been made leveraging Microsoft's languageserver capabilities to provide many of these features for NeoVim/Vim: https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim In many cases it's better than an IDE because the code-inspection, linting, etc etc, can be done using the same exact tools as what your CI is using behind the scenes. Also, having a languageserver for Rust/C++/JavaScript/TypeScript/Bash etc etc, all configured through coc avoids a lot of the jumping between IDEs/editors/tools to get reasonable completion and code navigation between each.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- charwalker 6y ago
  I've been a Windows admin before but now on an app support team running almost all Windows systems as an analyst but came from a poly sci degree. My Linux experience is homelab and a few work connected systems over time like a Ubuntu Server box that managed IP cameras on site. My experience with coding is mostly Windows automation via PowerShell and its built into Windows IDE as I need a dev role here to get like Visual studio. Even then it would be overkill for what I'm writing like temp cleanup, file transfer, monitoring, etc with my recent success was a script that checks every day for a set of reports we should have received and ingested overnight and lists what is missing then emails that info to myself and another team member. Super helpful to double check the business has the reports they need at the start of the day and get us a head start troubleshooting. With that in mind, I've used VIM for probably under 10 hours total, mostly for editing config files within headless Linux installs. For example, setting a static IP in Raspbian so I could SSH in once I put the pi somewhere it was online but not physically accessible. VIM is really neat for stuff like that. I'd love to have more reason to learn the interface but barring a weekly use I'd quickly lose familiarity and am focusing on javascript functionality as one of our apps can run js scripts. So for quickly editing files with a known structure like setting an IP address in Linux or updating code you understand, I can totally see how VIM is amazing. Lightwight, almost always there already so standardized, quick to navigate when familiar, and more. As a fairly novice level coder I'll stick to an IDE with scroll ability and a mouse/etc for coding, even for a slight update to something I wrote the previous day. I'm just not confident in getting it right the first time and know how to test or trial/error a command in an IDE much easier than CLI. If I was trained and focused on coding I bet I'd be way better at that stuff too.
  - antonvs 6y ago
    > As a fairly novice level coder I'll stick to an IDE with scroll ability and a mouse/etc for coding Check out gvim - it's a graphical version of vim that gives you scrolling and mouse support. It's not quite as graphical as a regular IDE but basic stuff like mouse and scrolling is fully supported. You can even use the mouse to e.g. resize tiled windows within the editor.

Code browsing and inspection is somewhat hampered by the fact its CLI. I use ctags and macros to move around code but its not always perfect. But then again there are many things I dislike in modern IDEs, I don't think there is a ideal solution, just like there is no one language to solve all problems.

antonvs 6y ago
There are graphical versions of vim. Gvim is my main editor. It's a bit of a hybrid, since many things that would exploit the GUI in an IDE are still textual in vim. But it has quite a few benefits over pure command line.
tralarpa 6y ago
> Code browsing and inspection is somewhat hampered by the fact its CLI. That's interesting because code browsing and inspection are by far the most important reason why I use a modern IDE. I tolerate all their weaknesses (slow, high memory consumption, errors after updates, etc.) because of this. I am surprised that somebody would say "I am using editor XYZ despite its weaknesses in code browsing and inspection".
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  It's always seemed to me that vim and other lightweight editors are most popular among people who are working in dynamic and functional languages, and heavyweight IDEs are most popular among people who are working in big, static, enterprisey OO languages like C++, Java and C#. I don't think that's just a coincidence.
- dhagz 6y ago
  What Vim lacks in browsing/inspecting code it makes up for with the speed you can make edits - using motions and macros can make tedious code changes nearly effortless. So it depends on what you value more.
- badhombres 6y ago
  Vanilla Vim I would agree is not good for code browsing and inspection, but two things I've noticed when coding with Vim: 1. Code Browsing is an initial, one time cost when learning the code base. After you learn the code base, I've needed this ability much less. 2. Adding plugins like NERDTree and fzf/ripgrep have helped make code browsing much easier in Vim. The downside to this is that if you're new to Vim, you need to learn how to use these plugins on top of learning how to Vim. So it's just more to learn. But you can also think of this as another one time cost in general.
- thedracle 6y ago
  This is true for me too, I would often use Vim to basically do quick modifications, and use an IDE for refactoring/completion, and code navigation. Recently a lot of quality plugins have been made leveraging Microsoft's languageserver capabilities to provide many of these features for NeoVim/Vim: https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim In many cases it's better than an IDE because the code-inspection, linting, etc etc, can be done using the same exact tools as what your CI is using behind the scenes. Also, having a languageserver for Rust/C++/JavaScript/TypeScript/Bash etc etc, all configured through coc avoids a lot of the jumping between IDEs/editors/tools to get reasonable completion and code navigation between each.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
charwalker 6y ago
I've been a Windows admin before but now on an app support team running almost all Windows systems as an analyst but came from a poly sci degree. My Linux experience is homelab and a few work connected systems over time like a Ubuntu Server box that managed IP cameras on site. My experience with coding is mostly Windows automation via PowerShell and its built into Windows IDE as I need a dev role here to get like Visual studio. Even then it would be overkill for what I'm writing like temp cleanup, file transfer, monitoring, etc with my recent success was a script that checks every day for a set of reports we should have received and ingested overnight and lists what is missing then emails that info to myself and another team member. Super helpful to double check the business has the reports they need at the start of the day and get us a head start troubleshooting. With that in mind, I've used VIM for probably under 10 hours total, mostly for editing config files within headless Linux installs. For example, setting a static IP in Raspbian so I could SSH in once I put the pi somewhere it was online but not physically accessible. VIM is really neat for stuff like that. I'd love to have more reason to learn the interface but barring a weekly use I'd quickly lose familiarity and am focusing on javascript functionality as one of our apps can run js scripts. So for quickly editing files with a known structure like setting an IP address in Linux or updating code you understand, I can totally see how VIM is amazing. Lightwight, almost always there already so standardized, quick to navigate when familiar, and more. As a fairly novice level coder I'll stick to an IDE with scroll ability and a mouse/etc for coding, even for a slight update to something I wrote the previous day. I'm just not confident in getting it right the first time and know how to test or trial/error a command in an IDE much easier than CLI. If I was trained and focused on coding I bet I'd be way better at that stuff too.
- antonvs 6y ago
  > As a fairly novice level coder I'll stick to an IDE with scroll ability and a mouse/etc for coding Check out gvim - it's a graphical version of vim that gives you scrolling and mouse support. It's not quite as graphical as a regular IDE but basic stuff like mouse and scrolling is fully supported. You can even use the mouse to e.g. resize tiled windows within the editor.