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> larger problem For a scientist doing a ML system to reconstruct pixelated faces, trained with white faces, why is he/she responsible for "insert larger probl
by scoutt 6y ago
> larger problem
For a scientist doing a ML system to reconstruct pixelated faces, trained with white faces, why is he/she responsible for "insert larger problem" outside of her/his field?
Do he/she has to also care about the brutal Tantalum Wars because there are some in the electronics they use?
As far as I can see, ML is pretty new, and there is a lot of room for improvement. And I think people need to stop thinking the entire world is racist, or doesn't care or don't want to improve things. Changes take time, and won't happen today, or tomorrow or the next decade.
There is a constant, furious need to point fingers, followed by fear of telling or not telling just the right words on the right order to the right audience. This is not how we are going to solve anything.
- foldr 6y agoYou know I'm fine with that attitude if it's combined with actual humility. Often as not, however, these high profile guys are shooting off on Twitter about every issue under the sun. But when it comes to racism, suddenly they're just narrow technicians and it's nothing to do with them.
- scoutt 6y agoI don't know if it is about racism. I think it's normal to become defensive when accused. If I say "your ML model is garbage" I am sure they will (maybe, if I am high-profile too) provide an explanation on why or why not.
- foldr 6y agoThis long twitter thread about racism isn't about racism?
- scoutt 6y agoSorry, I expressed it wrong. I wanted to say that when someone is accused of something, including of being a racist or something related to racism, it's normal to be defensive about it and take that posture. I don't think the researcher was being defensive just because it was about racism.
- genoapol 6y agoI think the key issues are primarily related to race. Many see these systems as a way to implement stop-and-frisk (quite racist outcomes) and worse across the country using AI/ML as cover. The higher error rate amongst darker skin people gives LE a new excuse to harass innocent historically disenfranchised people. I expect this tech will be widely used long before the accuracy problem that affects ~60% of the global population is fixed.
- conistonwater 6y agoReconstructing pixelated white faces is a lame research goal. If they think it would work on all faces, make them show that: it's science and it's their job to demonstrate that their approach works. Why bring "larger problems" into this when the problem is a "small problem", they built a system and it doesn't quite work but they published it anyway. By the way, ML is not nearly as new as you seem to think, and given the amount of resources poured into it by FAANG-type companies recently, even five years is a lot of time for ML nowadays.
- scoutt 6y ago> Reconstructing pixelated white faces is a lame research goal I'm sorry but you can't know this. Maybe it was the real objective, or a first step for something bigger, or a drunk Saturday night project. In any case is research, and is very valid. Unless you are the chief at their lab, I think you don't get to tell what to do or not to do and/or the scope of their job. Anything else is a conjecture. > By the way, ML is not nearly as new as you seem to think Well, the results are there, together with the polemic it generates TODAY about white and black faces. Tell me if ML and its adoption, generally accepted or not, is mature yet.
- Barrin92 6y ago>For a scientist doing a ML system to reconstruct pixelated faces, trained with white faces, why is he/she responsible for "insert larger problem" outside of her/his field? Because we're all responsible for how the tools we built are used and what they enable, and how they affect society at large. That's what ethics is about, something which seems to be absent in the education of the modern citizen and in particular engineer or scientist, who is supposed to come to work, program things and not think too much about the impact their products have on the world.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]