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> such numbers that they have little pressure to assimilate and adopt Western values. you mean like the uppety expat communities of Anglo-Saxon background who

> such numbers that they have little pressure to assimilate and adopt Western values. you mean like the uppety expat communities of Anglo-Saxon background who can't even bother learning German or French in Berlin or Nice even after 5 years in the country, the ones who go shopping every Saturday in their English groceries stores in Lyon and Munich and who will never invite the locals to their gatherings. Yes I've seen them in Singapore, HongKong and even Germany & France these British expat clubs. Think in India they're called British Raj unto this day for a reason. I've been living as a foreigner all my life and the higher the contrast between rich/poor between the foreigner/host the less of "integration" you see. Telling people to "integrate" or claiming certain types of "foreigners don't integrate" is extremely xenophobic. Anyone speaking of "integration" needs to be sent to the country these people come from and forced to live on the local salary and do as the locals do in that country, ... if the speaker hasn't tried this, you can assume that what comes out of their mouth is racist garbage.

sokoloff 6y ago
You do realize that in your first paragraph you claim certain types of foreigners don’t integrate and in your second that most people who claim that are xenophobic/just spouting racist garbage, right?
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  yes that is exactly what I'm saying. it's not a binary either or problem. and specifically I also wrote: > contrast between rich/poor between the foreigner/host the less of "integration" you see. integration is something that is expected of you when you're poor - nobody ever asked me (a white man with a foreign wife) to integrate - in fact being able to live in my own bubble in a large house just outside Cannes, with "cars" being my hobby, the kids in private international school, a gardener, pool-boy (a poor North African immigrant[1]) and 2 maids --> even the locals will give you respect and applaud you for "making it, all without learning the local language" (I did learn French later but it wasn't required of me in the same way it would have been if I were poor). the "fail to integrate" argument is always hypocritical. it is a way of saying "how dare them for refusing to be dominated by us" [1] integration was a big problem for him because he was Muslim even he spoke French (natively).
usrusr 6y ago
> the higher the contrast between rich/poor between the foreigner/host British in Germany or France seems pretty horizontal to me though. What's scary is how close-knit diaspora groups sometimes end up becoming more foreign to the host country than those in their ancestral country would be, holding up questionable traditions long after they are overcome by those who didn't leave. Permanently entrenched minorities are discrimination by definition, it can't stop without both sides stopping. Close-knit diaspora groups are a dangerous local maximum optimisation trap.

sokoloff 6y ago

You do realize that in your first paragraph you claim certain types of foreigners don’t integrate and in your second that most people who claim that are xenophobic/just spouting racist garbage, right?

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
yes that is exactly what I'm saying. it's not a binary either or problem. and specifically I also wrote: > contrast between rich/poor between the foreigner/host the less of "integration" you see. integration is something that is expected of you when you're poor - nobody ever asked me (a white man with a foreign wife) to integrate - in fact being able to live in my own bubble in a large house just outside Cannes, with "cars" being my hobby, the kids in private international school, a gardener, pool-boy (a poor North African immigrant[1]) and 2 maids --> even the locals will give you respect and applaud you for "making it, all without learning the local language" (I did learn French later but it wasn't required of me in the same way it would have been if I were poor). the "fail to integrate" argument is always hypocritical. it is a way of saying "how dare them for refusing to be dominated by us" [1] integration was a big problem for him because he was Muslim even he spoke French (natively).

usrusr 6y ago

> the higher the contrast between rich/poor between the foreigner/host British in Germany or France seems pretty horizontal to me though. What's scary is how close-knit diaspora groups sometimes end up becoming more foreign to the host country than those in their ancestral country would be, holding up questionable traditions long after they are overcome by those who didn't leave. Permanently entrenched minorities are discrimination by definition, it can't stop without both sides stopping. Close-knit diaspora groups are a dangerous local maximum optimisation trap.