5 ms·

We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, sex-selective abortions, hiring discrimination

We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, sex-selective abortions, hiring discrimination are becoming established because migrants have come over in such numbers that they have little pressure to assimilate and adopt Western values. Honestly, I don't believe you. This just sounds like the same thing racists and xenophobes have been saying for years. Do you have numbers from a source that isn't clearly a right-wing publication? If not, why say these things?

ReticentVole 6y ago
68,000 victims of FGM in Germany: https://www.dw.com/en/female-genital-mutilation-report-shows-68000-victims-in-germany/a-53937735 https://www.dw.com/en/female-genital-mutilation-report-shows... First-generation South Asian mothers in Canada give birth to 142 boys for every 100 girls: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6227816/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6227816/ There are multiple court cases filed against Infosys and other Indian companies in the US for racial discrimination in hiring practices. These are real issues that we cannot brush under the rug.
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  FGM is horrible, but citing that there are victims doesn't actually mean that it is becoming something established, which was the arguement. We've done an abysmal job at stopping it worldwide, which is the real upwards battle. Again, though, it doesn't mean that it is becoming established in new places. Same thing with your second link. First generation South Asian mothers in Canada... doesn't exactly mean that sex-selective abortion is 'becoming' widespread in Canada. It simply means that a minority of overall Canadians might do this, and it is higher in a certain subgroup. I honestly don't care about reasons for abortion, as it falls clearly in "none of my freaking business" and would rather simply keep it legal so that folks don't turn to unsafe practices. Again, though, the solution to 'fix' the issue (sexual equality in children) is really to fix it globally instead of targeting a minority in one country. Of course, this is widespread social uplift sorts of things. Hiring discrimination is entrenched in culture - this is not the only marker for it. Again, there is no need to point out one minority for the practice when it is widespread other places. 'Western values' supports systematic racism and until recently, outright discrimination.
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
> This just sounds like the same thing racists and xenophobes have been saying for years the reason why it sounds like a racist argument is because it is.
pnako 6y ago
In France, about 20 years ago there was a lively debate about whether north-African girls, in high school and universities, should be allowed to wear a "foulard islamique" (scarf over the hair). Now we are completely past that, and we have women wearing burkas and niqabs; things covering the entire body. This also increasingly includes indigenous French women. So not only some groups don't assimilate, they actually proselytize and convert others. It used to be politically incorrect to say it but nowadays the entire political class, including the left, is forced to recognize that it's an issue. It's especially a tremendous issue in France because it used to promote assimilation: the idea that anyone, racially, could become French as long as they completely abandoned their culture of origin (i.e. the opposite of multiculturalism). In practice it mostly worked with other Europeans like Spaniards, Italians, etc. Now we have an issue since we have de-facto (and non-working) multiculturalism in a country that still officially promotes assimilation. So yes it's definitely a problem, and as far as I can see it's been a problem everywhere, and throughout history. The idea that people with radically different cultures can live in the same place is not confirmed anywhere. In fact we can see that even people of the same racial background, with slightly different cultures, cannot really live together (a good example of that is Belgium, where Wallons and Flamands can't find political agreement).
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  I don't really understand why a headscarf is controversial at all. I don't understand why burkas and niqabs are controversial either, so long as folks know they have a choice in the matter. Someone else wearing one doesn't really affect you. The bigger issue is that you see it as a problem, instead of just accepting folks. Seriously: How does someone else wearing a headscarf - or more - actually affect you beyond the hypothetical of what a person could do?
  - pnako 6y ago
    The scarf is an issue in the sense that it was a way for militant, political Islam groups to test the waters. Which has led in less than a generation to much more extreme ways to openly show support for radical Islam (including burkas or more commonly niqabs). It's an issue because a nation, a society must have a common bond, a common culture. It's not a giant supermarket or a hotel.

ReticentVole 6y ago

68,000 victims of FGM in Germany: https://www.dw.com/en/female-genital-mutilation-report-shows-68000-victims-in-germany/a-53937735 https://www.dw.com/en/female-genital-mutilation-report-shows... First-generation South Asian mothers in Canada give birth to 142 boys for every 100 girls: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6227816/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6227816/ There are multiple court cases filed against Infosys and other Indian companies in the US for racial discrimination in hiring practices. These are real issues that we cannot brush under the rug.

Broken_Hippo 6y ago
FGM is horrible, but citing that there are victims doesn't actually mean that it is becoming something established, which was the arguement. We've done an abysmal job at stopping it worldwide, which is the real upwards battle. Again, though, it doesn't mean that it is becoming established in new places. Same thing with your second link. First generation South Asian mothers in Canada... doesn't exactly mean that sex-selective abortion is 'becoming' widespread in Canada. It simply means that a minority of overall Canadians might do this, and it is higher in a certain subgroup. I honestly don't care about reasons for abortion, as it falls clearly in "none of my freaking business" and would rather simply keep it legal so that folks don't turn to unsafe practices. Again, though, the solution to 'fix' the issue (sexual equality in children) is really to fix it globally instead of targeting a minority in one country. Of course, this is widespread social uplift sorts of things. Hiring discrimination is entrenched in culture - this is not the only marker for it. Again, there is no need to point out one minority for the practice when it is widespread other places. 'Western values' supports systematic racism and until recently, outright discrimination.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

> This just sounds like the same thing racists and xenophobes have been saying for years the reason why it sounds like a racist argument is because it is.

pnako 6y ago

In France, about 20 years ago there was a lively debate about whether north-African girls, in high school and universities, should be allowed to wear a "foulard islamique" (scarf over the hair). Now we are completely past that, and we have women wearing burkas and niqabs; things covering the entire body. This also increasingly includes indigenous French women. So not only some groups don't assimilate, they actually proselytize and convert others. It used to be politically incorrect to say it but nowadays the entire political class, including the left, is forced to recognize that it's an issue. It's especially a tremendous issue in France because it used to promote assimilation: the idea that anyone, racially, could become French as long as they completely abandoned their culture of origin (i.e. the opposite of multiculturalism). In practice it mostly worked with other Europeans like Spaniards, Italians, etc. Now we have an issue since we have de-facto (and non-working) multiculturalism in a country that still officially promotes assimilation. So yes it's definitely a problem, and as far as I can see it's been a problem everywhere, and throughout history. The idea that people with radically different cultures can live in the same place is not confirmed anywhere. In fact we can see that even people of the same racial background, with slightly different cultures, cannot really live together (a good example of that is Belgium, where Wallons and Flamands can't find political agreement).

Broken_Hippo 6y ago
I don't really understand why a headscarf is controversial at all. I don't understand why burkas and niqabs are controversial either, so long as folks know they have a choice in the matter. Someone else wearing one doesn't really affect you. The bigger issue is that you see it as a problem, instead of just accepting folks. Seriously: How does someone else wearing a headscarf - or more - actually affect you beyond the hypothetical of what a person could do?
- pnako 6y ago
  The scarf is an issue in the sense that it was a way for militant, political Islam groups to test the waters. Which has led in less than a generation to much more extreme ways to openly show support for radical Islam (including burkas or more commonly niqabs). It's an issue because a nation, a society must have a common bond, a common culture. It's not a giant supermarket or a hotel.