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I can't speak for Timnit, but for me it would have sufficed to see Yann start with "I care about ethics and so should researchers and engineers." Instead it too
by whymauri 6y ago
I can't speak for Timnit, but for me it would have sufficed to see Yann start with "I care about ethics and so should researchers and engineers." Instead it took so long to get there, so many "buts" and so many implications that researchers shouldn't be as invested, that I was disappointed.
As for Timnit and LeCun: a user above notes that the epistemological frameworks they're using to analyze this problem are not aligned. I found that comment pretty eye-opening, honestly.
- free_rms 6y agoWhy does everything need 50 disclaimers before anyone can say anything. Shouldn't "I care about ethics" just be assumed? How many people do you know who would say "I don't care about ethics"?
- whymauri 6y agoMy experience in ML and computer science is that it cannot be assumed. Consider companies like Palantir and their Gotham system. Consider the facial recognition systems deployed in Detroit, which fail 96% of thee time. It especially cannot be assumed when you attempt to offload that responsibility to other people. Computer science programs around the country promise their young, bright-eyed undergrads that they'll change the world. Very few of them teach them the ethics they'll need to do that in a thoughtful way. The assumption that science and technology is inherently ethical has unfortunately led to dangerous ideas over the past 150 years. Some, like geographic determinism and eugenics, have directly led to the suffering of millions of people. I hope we tread carefully and take action when we see harmful models. [0] [0] https://twitter.com/SpringerNature/status/1275477365196566528 https://twitter.com/SpringerNature/status/127547736519656652...
- free_rms 6y agoIf you're saying CS people need to read more humanities, I'm absolutely with you. But I didn't say that science and technology are inherently ethical. I said that most people care about ethics. They might have different priorities or philosophy than you, but almost nobody commenting on a social issue is doing so because they want the immoral thing to happen. Right? So asking everyone to say "of course I care, of course" before everything they say is laborious.
- guerrilla 6y agoI don't think immoral is the problem but rather amoral. In this case, that ethics was an afterthought.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- webmaven 6y ago> The assumption that science and technology is inherently ethical has unfortunately led to dangerous ideas over the past 150 years. I think that the underlying assumption is that science and technology are inherently neutral (which isn't true) and that neutrality would be inherently ethical (which also isn't true).
- whymauri 6y agoYeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head better than I did.
- unishark 6y ago> Why does everything need 50 disclaimers before anyone can say anything. Because it identifies which team you are on. People only recognize the existence of a nuanced point if it's made from someone on their own side.
- tasuki 6y agoSuch a great point. It made me laugh. And cry.
- Udik 6y agoIn this case, the very existence of teams is an invention of those who managed to make a career as team leaders. By prefacing your statements with an explicit allegiance to a team, you're in fact endorsing whoever is presenting him/herself as the team leader. This is purely a power game in which some individuals have managed to blackmail everyone else into recognising their role or being cancelled. Now and then someone prominent needs to be attacked to remind the others what they risk if they don't fall in step.