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You could try one of the Chinese android phones, like Xiaomi. Make sure to get an Asian import, because some models have an US/European export edition with the

You could try one of the Chinese android phones, like Xiaomi. Make sure to get an Asian import, because some models have an US/European export edition with the normal Google ecosystem. This is an interesting experience in what a fully functional phone not from Google/Apple can be like. It may not be able to run the usual apps though, unless you install the playstore manually.

bad_user 6y ago
Why would someone not trusting Google, place their trust in Xiaomi, a Chinese company?
- fsflover 6y ago
  What if you live in the US? Which government you should fear more, US or Chinese?
  - bad_user 6y ago
    You should fear your local government most, of course, but it does not follow that given the choice you should pick foreign solutions, quite the contrary. As a citizen you have rights guaranteed by the law in your own country. That's the very definition of citizenship. As a citizen you have leverage over your government, even if small, because you can organize yourself with others, e.g. in class action lawsuits, you can vote, you can convince others to vote, etc. Foreign governments and companies couldn't give a shit about your rights, the only rights you have are those defined weakly by trade agreements. Not only that but data can be traded or leaked. A foreign company thousands of miles away, collecting data about you, could always leak that data to your local organized crime organizations. N.B. I know that big companies like Xiaomi also have a presence in the US. With a big enough presence, the US government could coerce them just as easily, so if you fear the US government, it's a double whammy. --- So this is a non sequitur. Even if you fear the US government, as a US citizen, you should either pick US solutions, or solutions from countries that have a culture and laws for preserving privacy, such as Switzerland or Germany. Frankly as a US citizen picking products and services from a country with disregard for basic human rights, because you don't trust the US, is just stupid.
    - fsflover 6y ago
      > As a citizen you have rights guaranteed by the law in your own country. True except for some people like protesters or whistleblowers who do not enjoy "rights guaranteed by the law", or at least not reliably. > Even if you fear the US government, as a US citizen, you should either pick US solutions, or solutions from countries that have a culture and laws for preserving privacy, such as Switzerland or Germany. Are you aware of any smartphones from those countries without involvement of Apple or Google?
ocdtrekkie 6y ago
The issue is too many Android apps won't even run without Google's malware installed. Even Google's direct competitors' apps depend on it. Skype from Microsoft will not run on Android without Google Play last time I tried it. So I needed to move to a platform where the default assumption is not that users have Google's background malware enabled, and that means anything based on Android is off the table.
- viraptor 6y ago
  Microsoft phone is dead. They're not competitors. You can also use https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/ with lots of apps already as an alternative.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    Are you saying you do not believe Google and Microsoft are competitors? From office suites and chat apps to cloud services and gaming platforms, they have a lot of competing offerings.

bad_user 6y ago

Why would someone not trusting Google, place their trust in Xiaomi, a Chinese company?

fsflover 6y ago
What if you live in the US? Which government you should fear more, US or Chinese?
- bad_user 6y ago
  You should fear your local government most, of course, but it does not follow that given the choice you should pick foreign solutions, quite the contrary. As a citizen you have rights guaranteed by the law in your own country. That's the very definition of citizenship. As a citizen you have leverage over your government, even if small, because you can organize yourself with others, e.g. in class action lawsuits, you can vote, you can convince others to vote, etc. Foreign governments and companies couldn't give a shit about your rights, the only rights you have are those defined weakly by trade agreements. Not only that but data can be traded or leaked. A foreign company thousands of miles away, collecting data about you, could always leak that data to your local organized crime organizations. N.B. I know that big companies like Xiaomi also have a presence in the US. With a big enough presence, the US government could coerce them just as easily, so if you fear the US government, it's a double whammy. --- So this is a non sequitur. Even if you fear the US government, as a US citizen, you should either pick US solutions, or solutions from countries that have a culture and laws for preserving privacy, such as Switzerland or Germany. Frankly as a US citizen picking products and services from a country with disregard for basic human rights, because you don't trust the US, is just stupid.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    > As a citizen you have rights guaranteed by the law in your own country. True except for some people like protesters or whistleblowers who do not enjoy "rights guaranteed by the law", or at least not reliably. > Even if you fear the US government, as a US citizen, you should either pick US solutions, or solutions from countries that have a culture and laws for preserving privacy, such as Switzerland or Germany. Are you aware of any smartphones from those countries without involvement of Apple or Google?

ocdtrekkie 6y ago

The issue is too many Android apps won't even run without Google's malware installed. Even Google's direct competitors' apps depend on it. Skype from Microsoft will not run on Android without Google Play last time I tried it. So I needed to move to a platform where the default assumption is not that users have Google's background malware enabled, and that means anything based on Android is off the table.

viraptor 6y ago
Microsoft phone is dead. They're not competitors. You can also use https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/ with lots of apps already as an alternative.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  Are you saying you do not believe Google and Microsoft are competitors? From office suites and chat apps to cloud services and gaming platforms, they have a lot of competing offerings.