3 ms·

For me, Play Services is a non-starter: It's malware, plain and simple. For a couple years I tried to use Android without Google services, but I found it too re

For me, Play Services is a non-starter: It's malware, plain and simple. For a couple years I tried to use Android without Google services, but I found it too restrictive. Most apps I'd want/need to use wouldn't even run without Google Play, even if you got the APK, since there's not really a good app store that has a lot of Android apps without Google Play. (F-Droid's hard-line open source requirement is too restrictive for my daily driver.) I went to Windows Mobile for a while, it had more apps than a non-Google Android phone as it was, but obviously that's dead now as Microsoft has left the consumer space and literally told everyone to go buy Android phones. Until antitrust happens, iPhone is really all that's left. I've got a PinePhone too, and I'm pretty excited about it, but it'll probably be a while until it reaches Windows Mobile-level of app availability. I've been pleasantly surprised by Apple's pro-privacy moves since I bought it, and if they're opening up changing default apps this year too, really the most problematic limitation is going to be gone.

user5994461 6y ago
You could try one of the Chinese android phones, like Xiaomi. Make sure to get an Asian import, because some models have an US/European export edition with the normal Google ecosystem. This is an interesting experience in what a fully functional phone not from Google/Apple can be like. It may not be able to run the usual apps though, unless you install the playstore manually.
- bad_user 6y ago
  Why would someone not trusting Google, place their trust in Xiaomi, a Chinese company?
  - fsflover 6y ago
    What if you live in the US? Which government you should fear more, US or Chinese?
    - bad_user 6y ago
      You should fear your local government most, of course, but it does not follow that given the choice you should pick foreign solutions, quite the contrary. As a citizen you have rights guaranteed by the law in your own country. That's the very definition of citizenship. As a citizen you have leverage over your government, even if small, because you can organize yourself with others, e.g. in class action lawsuits, you can vote, you can convince others to vote, etc. Foreign governments and companies couldn't give a shit about your rights, the only rights you have are those defined weakly by trade agreements. Not only that but data can be traded or leaked. A foreign company thousands of miles away, collecting data about you, could always leak that data to your local organized crime organizations. N.B. I know that big companies like Xiaomi also have a presence in the US. With a big enough presence, the US government could coerce them just as easily, so if you fear the US government, it's a double whammy. --- So this is a non sequitur. Even if you fear the US government, as a US citizen, you should either pick US solutions, or solutions from countries that have a culture and laws for preserving privacy, such as Switzerland or Germany. Frankly as a US citizen picking products and services from a country with disregard for basic human rights, because you don't trust the US, is just stupid.
      - fsflover 6y ago
        > As a citizen you have rights guaranteed by the law in your own country. True except for some people like protesters or whistleblowers who do not enjoy "rights guaranteed by the law", or at least not reliably. > Even if you fear the US government, as a US citizen, you should either pick US solutions, or solutions from countries that have a culture and laws for preserving privacy, such as Switzerland or Germany. Are you aware of any smartphones from those countries without involvement of Apple or Google?
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  The issue is too many Android apps won't even run without Google's malware installed. Even Google's direct competitors' apps depend on it. Skype from Microsoft will not run on Android without Google Play last time I tried it. So I needed to move to a platform where the default assumption is not that users have Google's background malware enabled, and that means anything based on Android is off the table.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    Microsoft phone is dead. They're not competitors. You can also use https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/ with lots of apps already as an alternative.
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      Are you saying you do not believe Google and Microsoft are competitors? From office suites and chat apps to cloud services and gaming platforms, they have a lot of competing offerings.
bad_user 6y ago
What is wrong with Play Services, why is it malware?
- izacus 6y ago
  It provides same services as Apple ships with iOS (iCloud, Push messaging services, Find my Friend, AppStore, Location, etc.), except that in Android that's branded "malware that calls home" and in Apple world it's called "integral part of the OS". The only difference here is that in Android you can actually separate the two.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    The second difference is, you can replace it - https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/
    - no_wizard 6y ago
      This sounds great, but reading the fine print: >Although most microG components are far from complete, users are amazed by the results. What users are amazed by what results? And if you read this carefully, it clearly states its missing swaths of the APIs, so its not 1 to 1 compatible and is very likely out of date in at least one reimplementation, per this [0]: >This is alpha-grade software and not yet ready for production use. Do not use if you don't know what you're doing. I don't think this would hold up to being what I'd use as a daily driver. I just want my phone to work not fiddle with troubleshooting weird edge cases for apps I want to use. I applaud the project, but its hardly a simple as saying 'you can replace it' and that's the last you'll have to think about it. [0] https://github.com/microg/android_packages_apps_GmsCore/wiki https://github.com/microg/android_packages_apps_GmsCore/wiki
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      MicroG still talks to Google services. It takes their code off your device but doesn't relieve you of the primary issue, that everything is dependent on Google's cloud services to work, and that they can still track everything you sent to them.
andrepd 6y ago
microg is a FOSS implementation of google play services, without the malware part. Apps will still see "google play services" on your phone and mostly will run without problems, but their API calls are actually handled by microg.

user5994461 6y ago

You could try one of the Chinese android phones, like Xiaomi. Make sure to get an Asian import, because some models have an US/European export edition with the normal Google ecosystem. This is an interesting experience in what a fully functional phone not from Google/Apple can be like. It may not be able to run the usual apps though, unless you install the playstore manually.

bad_user 6y ago
Why would someone not trusting Google, place their trust in Xiaomi, a Chinese company?
- fsflover 6y ago
  What if you live in the US? Which government you should fear more, US or Chinese?
  - bad_user 6y ago
    You should fear your local government most, of course, but it does not follow that given the choice you should pick foreign solutions, quite the contrary. As a citizen you have rights guaranteed by the law in your own country. That's the very definition of citizenship. As a citizen you have leverage over your government, even if small, because you can organize yourself with others, e.g. in class action lawsuits, you can vote, you can convince others to vote, etc. Foreign governments and companies couldn't give a shit about your rights, the only rights you have are those defined weakly by trade agreements. Not only that but data can be traded or leaked. A foreign company thousands of miles away, collecting data about you, could always leak that data to your local organized crime organizations. N.B. I know that big companies like Xiaomi also have a presence in the US. With a big enough presence, the US government could coerce them just as easily, so if you fear the US government, it's a double whammy. --- So this is a non sequitur. Even if you fear the US government, as a US citizen, you should either pick US solutions, or solutions from countries that have a culture and laws for preserving privacy, such as Switzerland or Germany. Frankly as a US citizen picking products and services from a country with disregard for basic human rights, because you don't trust the US, is just stupid.
    - fsflover 6y ago
      > As a citizen you have rights guaranteed by the law in your own country. True except for some people like protesters or whistleblowers who do not enjoy "rights guaranteed by the law", or at least not reliably. > Even if you fear the US government, as a US citizen, you should either pick US solutions, or solutions from countries that have a culture and laws for preserving privacy, such as Switzerland or Germany. Are you aware of any smartphones from those countries without involvement of Apple or Google?
ocdtrekkie 6y ago
The issue is too many Android apps won't even run without Google's malware installed. Even Google's direct competitors' apps depend on it. Skype from Microsoft will not run on Android without Google Play last time I tried it. So I needed to move to a platform where the default assumption is not that users have Google's background malware enabled, and that means anything based on Android is off the table.
- viraptor 6y ago
  Microsoft phone is dead. They're not competitors. You can also use https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/ with lots of apps already as an alternative.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    Are you saying you do not believe Google and Microsoft are competitors? From office suites and chat apps to cloud services and gaming platforms, they have a lot of competing offerings.

bad_user 6y ago

What is wrong with Play Services, why is it malware?

izacus 6y ago
It provides same services as Apple ships with iOS (iCloud, Push messaging services, Find my Friend, AppStore, Location, etc.), except that in Android that's branded "malware that calls home" and in Apple world it's called "integral part of the OS". The only difference here is that in Android you can actually separate the two.
- viraptor 6y ago
  The second difference is, you can replace it - https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/
  - no_wizard 6y ago
    This sounds great, but reading the fine print: >Although most microG components are far from complete, users are amazed by the results. What users are amazed by what results? And if you read this carefully, it clearly states its missing swaths of the APIs, so its not 1 to 1 compatible and is very likely out of date in at least one reimplementation, per this [0]: >This is alpha-grade software and not yet ready for production use. Do not use if you don't know what you're doing. I don't think this would hold up to being what I'd use as a daily driver. I just want my phone to work not fiddle with troubleshooting weird edge cases for apps I want to use. I applaud the project, but its hardly a simple as saying 'you can replace it' and that's the last you'll have to think about it. [0] https://github.com/microg/android_packages_apps_GmsCore/wiki https://github.com/microg/android_packages_apps_GmsCore/wiki
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    MicroG still talks to Google services. It takes their code off your device but doesn't relieve you of the primary issue, that everything is dependent on Google's cloud services to work, and that they can still track everything you sent to them.

andrepd 6y ago

microg is a FOSS implementation of google play services, without the malware part. Apps will still see "google play services" on your phone and mostly will run without problems, but their API calls are actually handled by microg.