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With so few data points in the anecdote, there are many narratives you can apply to it that all fit, each with it's own little facet of truth. One that resonat

With so few data points in the anecdote, there are many narratives you can apply to it that all fit, each with it's own little facet of truth. One that resonates with what I'm going through in my life right now is that it seems that US culture optimizes for preventing unexpected bad experiences with the consequence that unexpected good experiences are lost too. There is very little serendipity to life in the US today. When you get a couch from Ikea, you know exactly how it's going to go. Every meal at McDonald's is like every meal there you've ever had. There are, of course, pockets of delight you can find. But, overall, it seems that our culture has trended towards risk-aversion, safety, familiarity. There's a sort of constant infantilization going on where we're trained to believe we can't handle surprises and thus we should avoid them. Millions of adults read nothing but "Young Adult" fiction. All of our biggest box office movies are comic book adaptations. Millions are on anti-anxiety medication. Because we avoid taking risks, we never learn to handle them. We never witness ourselves being resilient and gain the self-respect that that garners. So the feedback loop keeps us nestled tighter and tighter in our bubbles.

zip1234 6y ago
Massive amounts of boring, repetitive, blandness.
- msla 6y ago
  Funny that anyone would choose to live in a hellscape, innit?
  - mediaman 6y ago
    It's a hellscape of boredom, not of pain. And many do choose boredom. A life of boredom was preferential to the alternative for much of human history.
    - msla 6y ago
      > It's a hellscape of boredom, not of pain. > And many do choose boredom. Then maybe it isn't a hellscape for them.
      - zip1234 6y ago
        Obviously it isn't a hellscape. That was a term meant to evoke the negative consequences of suburban sprawl. There are plenty of positive things about it for people that live there.
frockington1 6y ago
That was a depressingly good argument to read. This idea may extend to wealth inequality. If you're whole like has been in the safety of comic book heroes and YA Fiction, taking calculated risks may be an incredibly daunting task
jmcqk6 6y ago
There might be some truth in this, but it's also true that we're really bad at avoiding risks. The pandemic is a good example of that. Nearly everyone in the US, nearly every business in the US, was almost completely unprepared for it. A better way to look at it might be that we optimize for being comfortable. It's not so much risk aversion, but since risks make us uncomfortable, we avoid them.
- tomsthumb 6y ago
  For the most part, people who don’t address Covid as a risk do so because they don’t see it as a risk. That’s different than choosing to avoid risk.
- _bxg1 6y ago
  We're good at avoiding small, mundane risks. We struggle to prepare for large, novel risks.
- toomanybeersies 6y ago
  I think we're so bad at avoiding risks because most of us are so averse to risk that we're not exposed to any mild risk, so we're completely unprepared and incapable of handling greater risks. Most children are shielded from risks growing up, since good parents don't want their kids to get hurt. They end up reaching adulthood lacking any risk awareness or crisis management skills.
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  Speaking about pandemic, I was very surprised at the cultural differences about face masks. And I don't mean whether people want to use them or not, because you find both kinds of people everywhere. The surprising difference was at behavior of people who thought that using a face mask was a good thing... what was their following step? My American friends typically did some research, found which types of face masks offer the highest protection, and refused to settle for anything less. Then they complained on social networks about the good masks being sold out. My Eastern European friends typically found some DYI videos, and then either started making their own face masks at home and selling them on social networks, or just bought them if someone else was faster. In a week or two, everyone had as many masks as they wanted to have. Lower quality, sure, but way better than nothing. Of course, I am generalizing here, but this was the pattern I noticed, and it quite surprised me, because I honestly expected the opposite thing to happen. I expected Eastern Europeans to beg their governments to do something about the situation, and Americans to handle the situation using their entrepreneurial spirit. But somehow I saw Americans complaining about why Trump didn't do this or that, and Eastern Europeans taking initiative in their own hands; and even the statistics show how the latter approach saved thousands of lives. Seems like living in a country where you know that everything is unreliable, especially the system (whether you use this word to mean goverment, market, or whatever other power greater than you and your neighbors), provides some valuable survival skills. Now I guess the question is how to develop or maintain those skills when your environment improves. Because, obviously, most people would like to see their situation improve and the environment become more reliable.
roland35 6y ago
This is spot on. I feel like this bubble mentality extends to our online and social interactions too. We used to have to deal with our neighbors whether we agreed with them or not, now we just find out comfy communities online where we aren't challenged to think outside the box!
msla 6y ago
> it seems that US culture optimizes for preventing unexpected bad experiences This is a pretty good definition of human agency in general: We as a species wanted fewer bad experiences when traveling, so we developed roads and made maps. We wanted fewer bad experiences with sickness, so we developed medicine and improved it.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
duxup 6y ago
Humans are generally risk averse. I thing given the chance it is a choice most people make.
thatfrenchguy 6y ago
Thanks for the revelation ! Never understood before the love for chains in everything in the US (notably for hotels and restaurants) vs things like stars in France :)
- munificent 6y ago
  > Never understood before the love for chains in everything in the US (notably for hotels and restaurants) That is partially a consumer desire for predictability, but this is also driven very heavily by market forces and economies of scale. Large corporations are very good at driving out or buying up smaller ones, so the market tends towards homogeneity even if it's not what consumers want.
_bxg1 6y ago
As someone who deals with anxiety I sometimes wonder if this is to blame for the wave of anxiety and depression that we've seen in recent decades, as well as the rampant personal insecurity (across the entire political spectrum, despite what some would tell you). And whether those might be partly to blame for our ongoing political meltdown, as people lash out against others in order to fortify their own identities, because they don't feel enough confidence and stability in them otherwise.
- munificent 6y ago
  This is exactly what I'm going through in my life. A couple of family members have anxiety, which causes us to avoid getting out of our comfort zones and pushing ourselves. And I'm finding that over time my own anxiety increases too. I think a big part of that is because I'm losing my own experience at seeing myself be resilient and handle situations. And I worry a lot about how this generation raises its kids. We're told that you always need to support your kids so that nothing tears their self esteem down. But I think in the process we've lost giving them the chance to build their esteem up. They don't get many experiences they can look on where they say, "Yeah, I really rose to the occasion and did this difficult thing."
egd 6y ago
This is similar to the Hygiene Hypothesis for allergies and autoimmune disorders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis Nassim Taleb's Antifragility concept is relevant here as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifragility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifragility
nicbou 6y ago
I disagree with the risk-taking part. Our system is built on predictability. You can trust things to work a certain way, and you can build on top of that. A predictable world affords you tighter tolerances and fewer verifications. This allows you to spend your risk tokens on what you build, and not on compensating for the shaky foundation. I crossed central asia alone on a motorcycle. I couldn't trust the drivers, the police, the food, the water, the border guards, the petrol, the exchange rates, or anything else really. It was very stressful. You couldn't possibly build great things on such a shaky foundation.
- munificent 6y ago
  Yes, this is a great point. Predictability is efficiency and efficiency lets you accomplish more with less. That's a good thing when it comes to conserving resources, fighting climate change, or even just making the most of your time on Earth. However, like most things, the optimal point is probably not at either extreme. Maximum predictability and efficiency is how you get monocultures, authoritarian conformism, and a life so indistinguishable from everyone else's that there's little point living it.
frandroid 6y ago
And it's not just about not learning how to handle risk, but at this point it's gotten to the point of not believing that risk exists! That's the only way I can explain the militant anti-mask brigades out there. The virus cannot happen to them!
- munificent 6y ago
  > That's the only way I can explain the militant anti-mask brigades out there. 90% of seemingly crazy human behavior can be explained by group dynamics. Humans are a social animal. We evolved in tribes that worked cooperatively to survive. We hunted in groups to take down animals larger than ourselves. We protected each other at night from predators. And we fought other tribes for access to the best resources. Because of this evolutionary history, we are hardwired to prioritize belonging above almost all other concerns. We talk about food and shelter on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but the top of that pyramid should really be "part of the group". Because for most of our evolutionary history, if you were alone, that meant you weren't going to find shelter or food. Exile was a death sentence. We don't need tribes to survive now, but the wiring is still there. We still wake up needing to belong to an in-group and worrying that there is some out-group out there in the night coming to take our possessions from us. The anti-mask thing is a tribal signal. For people surrounded by Republicans, being part of that in-group means publicly signalling alliegance to it. Trump wants to downplay COVID-19 because it makes him look bad. And because he's the leader of that tribe, it means being anti-mask shows you are part of that tribe. The way human brains work, being part of a tribe feels a lot safer than wearing a mask to protect yourself from a disease.

zip1234 6y ago

Massive amounts of boring, repetitive, blandness.

msla 6y ago
Funny that anyone would choose to live in a hellscape, innit?
- mediaman 6y ago
  It's a hellscape of boredom, not of pain. And many do choose boredom. A life of boredom was preferential to the alternative for much of human history.
  - msla 6y ago
    > It's a hellscape of boredom, not of pain. > And many do choose boredom. Then maybe it isn't a hellscape for them.
    - zip1234 6y ago
      Obviously it isn't a hellscape. That was a term meant to evoke the negative consequences of suburban sprawl. There are plenty of positive things about it for people that live there.

frockington1 6y ago

That was a depressingly good argument to read. This idea may extend to wealth inequality. If you're whole like has been in the safety of comic book heroes and YA Fiction, taking calculated risks may be an incredibly daunting task

jmcqk6 6y ago

There might be some truth in this, but it's also true that we're really bad at avoiding risks. The pandemic is a good example of that. Nearly everyone in the US, nearly every business in the US, was almost completely unprepared for it. A better way to look at it might be that we optimize for being comfortable. It's not so much risk aversion, but since risks make us uncomfortable, we avoid them.

tomsthumb 6y ago
For the most part, people who don’t address Covid as a risk do so because they don’t see it as a risk. That’s different than choosing to avoid risk.
_bxg1 6y ago
We're good at avoiding small, mundane risks. We struggle to prepare for large, novel risks.
toomanybeersies 6y ago
I think we're so bad at avoiding risks because most of us are so averse to risk that we're not exposed to any mild risk, so we're completely unprepared and incapable of handling greater risks. Most children are shielded from risks growing up, since good parents don't want their kids to get hurt. They end up reaching adulthood lacking any risk awareness or crisis management skills.
Viliam1234 6y ago
Speaking about pandemic, I was very surprised at the cultural differences about face masks. And I don't mean whether people want to use them or not, because you find both kinds of people everywhere. The surprising difference was at behavior of people who thought that using a face mask was a good thing... what was their following step? My American friends typically did some research, found which types of face masks offer the highest protection, and refused to settle for anything less. Then they complained on social networks about the good masks being sold out. My Eastern European friends typically found some DYI videos, and then either started making their own face masks at home and selling them on social networks, or just bought them if someone else was faster. In a week or two, everyone had as many masks as they wanted to have. Lower quality, sure, but way better than nothing. Of course, I am generalizing here, but this was the pattern I noticed, and it quite surprised me, because I honestly expected the opposite thing to happen. I expected Eastern Europeans to beg their governments to do something about the situation, and Americans to handle the situation using their entrepreneurial spirit. But somehow I saw Americans complaining about why Trump didn't do this or that, and Eastern Europeans taking initiative in their own hands; and even the statistics show how the latter approach saved thousands of lives. Seems like living in a country where you know that everything is unreliable, especially the system (whether you use this word to mean goverment, market, or whatever other power greater than you and your neighbors), provides some valuable survival skills. Now I guess the question is how to develop or maintain those skills when your environment improves. Because, obviously, most people would like to see their situation improve and the environment become more reliable.

roland35 6y ago

This is spot on. I feel like this bubble mentality extends to our online and social interactions too. We used to have to deal with our neighbors whether we agreed with them or not, now we just find out comfy communities online where we aren't challenged to think outside the box!

msla 6y ago

> it seems that US culture optimizes for preventing unexpected bad experiences This is a pretty good definition of human agency in general: We as a species wanted fewer bad experiences when traveling, so we developed roads and made maps. We wanted fewer bad experiences with sickness, so we developed medicine and improved it.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

duxup 6y ago

Humans are generally risk averse. I thing given the chance it is a choice most people make.

thatfrenchguy 6y ago

Thanks for the revelation ! Never understood before the love for chains in everything in the US (notably for hotels and restaurants) vs things like stars in France :)

munificent 6y ago
> Never understood before the love for chains in everything in the US (notably for hotels and restaurants) That is partially a consumer desire for predictability, but this is also driven very heavily by market forces and economies of scale. Large corporations are very good at driving out or buying up smaller ones, so the market tends towards homogeneity even if it's not what consumers want.

_bxg1 6y ago

As someone who deals with anxiety I sometimes wonder if this is to blame for the wave of anxiety and depression that we've seen in recent decades, as well as the rampant personal insecurity (across the entire political spectrum, despite what some would tell you). And whether those might be partly to blame for our ongoing political meltdown, as people lash out against others in order to fortify their own identities, because they don't feel enough confidence and stability in them otherwise.

munificent 6y ago
This is exactly what I'm going through in my life. A couple of family members have anxiety, which causes us to avoid getting out of our comfort zones and pushing ourselves. And I'm finding that over time my own anxiety increases too. I think a big part of that is because I'm losing my own experience at seeing myself be resilient and handle situations. And I worry a lot about how this generation raises its kids. We're told that you always need to support your kids so that nothing tears their self esteem down. But I think in the process we've lost giving them the chance to build their esteem up. They don't get many experiences they can look on where they say, "Yeah, I really rose to the occasion and did this difficult thing."

egd 6y ago

This is similar to the Hygiene Hypothesis for allergies and autoimmune disorders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis Nassim Taleb's Antifragility concept is relevant here as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifragility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifragility

nicbou 6y ago

I disagree with the risk-taking part. Our system is built on predictability. You can trust things to work a certain way, and you can build on top of that. A predictable world affords you tighter tolerances and fewer verifications. This allows you to spend your risk tokens on what you build, and not on compensating for the shaky foundation. I crossed central asia alone on a motorcycle. I couldn't trust the drivers, the police, the food, the water, the border guards, the petrol, the exchange rates, or anything else really. It was very stressful. You couldn't possibly build great things on such a shaky foundation.

munificent 6y ago
Yes, this is a great point. Predictability is efficiency and efficiency lets you accomplish more with less. That's a good thing when it comes to conserving resources, fighting climate change, or even just making the most of your time on Earth. However, like most things, the optimal point is probably not at either extreme. Maximum predictability and efficiency is how you get monocultures, authoritarian conformism, and a life so indistinguishable from everyone else's that there's little point living it.

frandroid 6y ago

And it's not just about not learning how to handle risk, but at this point it's gotten to the point of not believing that risk exists! That's the only way I can explain the militant anti-mask brigades out there. The virus cannot happen to them!

munificent 6y ago
> That's the only way I can explain the militant anti-mask brigades out there. 90% of seemingly crazy human behavior can be explained by group dynamics. Humans are a social animal. We evolved in tribes that worked cooperatively to survive. We hunted in groups to take down animals larger than ourselves. We protected each other at night from predators. And we fought other tribes for access to the best resources. Because of this evolutionary history, we are hardwired to prioritize belonging above almost all other concerns. We talk about food and shelter on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but the top of that pyramid should really be "part of the group". Because for most of our evolutionary history, if you were alone, that meant you weren't going to find shelter or food. Exile was a death sentence. We don't need tribes to survive now, but the wiring is still there. We still wake up needing to belong to an in-group and worrying that there is some out-group out there in the night coming to take our possessions from us. The anti-mask thing is a tribal signal. For people surrounded by Republicans, being part of that in-group means publicly signalling alliegance to it. Trump wants to downplay COVID-19 because it makes him look bad. And because he's the leader of that tribe, it means being anti-mask shows you are part of that tribe. The way human brains work, being part of a tribe feels a lot safer than wearing a mask to protect yourself from a disease.