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Show HN: Funny, Human-Memorable SHA-256 Fingerprints

42 points by eneuman 6y ago

dependenttypes 6y ago
I do not get it. How are black, white, and western offensive? https://github.com/e-neuman/madhash/blob/master/offensive.txt https://github.com/e-neuman/madhash/blob/master/offensive.tx... Anyway, this is kinda similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGP_word_list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGP_word_list
- eneuman 6y ago
  The words aren't offensive, but the output sentences might be, so why risk it? I appreciate the reference to the PGP word list, I didn't know about it. One thing MadHash adds is a bit of structure in the form of <adjective> <noun> <adverb> <verb> <adjective> <noun> which should help make the phrases more memorable. Also, each sentence covers 64 bits, whereas the PGP word list covers just 2 bits per word.
  - londons_explore 6y ago
    Having generated user passwords with dictionary[random()] a few times, I can tell you you will get angry users moaning about the fact you defaulted their password to "You Fat Pig", or "Dumb Looks". A surprising percentage of random combinations of innocuous words can be found offensive by someone, and automatic filtering is pretty much impossible.
    - eneuman 6y ago
      That's pretty funny, and you're right. I'm just avoiding the very obvious ones, but there will always be more!
    - paledot 6y ago
      At work I briefly experimented with naming releases deterministically based on the git hash and a common words list. I generated 20 random 3-word phrases as a quick proof of concept, and 3 of the 20 were easily construed as sexually suggestive. I filed a bug report with the English language, but it was rejected.
  - trefil 6y ago
    Maybe you should consider telling your users not to get offended by machine generated semi-random strings of words.
  - preinheimer 6y ago
    For a password generator we ended up going with something like three pieces: predefined word list, list of all the colours CSS supports, two digit number. I originally tried to use more of our own word list but the possibly offensive combinations drove us away. We're not making passwords anymore (yay!) but use it for like coupon code generation.
  - dependenttypes 6y ago
    > the PGP word list covers just 2 bits per word huh? no, it covers 8 bits per word, just a bit less than yours (6 vs 8 words per 64 bits)
- duskwuff 6y ago
  There are a lot of potential words that those words could appear offensive in combination with. Looking through the current word list (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/e-neuman/madhash/master/public/dictionary.json https://raw.githubusercontent.com/e-neuman/madhash/master/pu...), a couple that come to mind are "power", "dominance", "curse", "immigration", "perfection", and "intelligence". (Some of those words should probably be removed from the list themselves, but that's besides the point.) TBH, I don't think the approach of picking words randomly from a dictionary is appropriate here. Not only does it have a tendency to leave in words which could cause offense, but it can also end up picking uncommon words which are hard to remember (like majdanek, szold, or palazzo) and groups of words which could easily be confused (politician and politics; psychiatrist, psychologist, and psychology; supervision and supervisor).
smiley1437 6y ago
My disappointment is immeasurable that I can't put in a Madhash and get the SHA-256 back ;)
- eneuman 6y ago
  I am so sorry, I'll do it tomorrow!
ketralnis 6y ago
See also rfc1751[1] which I use in a project[2] to make human readable fingerprints like this: === secrets.vm === common name: secrets.vm fingerprint: b957e10c998faa9909cff3ba4ec35485d04708c3ecc7481fe14d7f07bc0229cd public key: c15e697e4807793ef8a9461a7b2c6cf2266d1ec1480a594e83b54e7b75e07702 public sign: f1db594eb55fe97657c57f2aa01afd1210a46d42d80d5552ac4d548162d4968e mnemonic: AM ROBE KIT OMEN BATE ICY TROY RON WHAT HIP OMIT SUP LID CLAY AVER LEAR CAVE REEL CAN PAM FAN LUND RIFT ACME does that look right? [y/n] [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1751 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1751 [2]: https://github.com/ketralnis/secrets https://github.com/ketralnis/secrets
- captn3m0 6y ago
  I like the Telegram safety feature where they use Emojis as fingerprints.
  - Jaxkr 6y ago
    Yeah, it’s very clever. Packs a lot more bytes into few characters.
zedgerman 6y ago
Neat idea! Btw: Consider renaming your list of offensive terms “denylist” or similar.
- eneuman 6y ago
  Good point! Thanks for the tip!
- asdkhadsj 6y ago
  What's the reasoning here? (not challenging you, just want to make sure I understand your thought process). I imagine it's something to do with the fact that some of the words won't be "offensive" by themselves, or perhaps even at all by all people. So naming it deny disassociates the reason from the word? Ie sometimes the word itself is offensive, sometimes it's fine but part of offensive combinations, etc etc?
curryhoward 6y ago
Another implementation of this idea: https://www.huffgram.com/ https://www.huffgram.com/
beagle3 6y ago
Relevant: https://web.archive.org/web/20090918202746/http://tothink.com/mnemonic/wordlist.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090918202746/http://tothink.co...

42 points by eneuman 6y ago

I do not get it. How are black, white, and western offensive? https://github.com/e-neuman/madhash/blob/master/offensive.txt https://github.com/e-neuman/madhash/blob/master/offensive.tx... Anyway, this is kinda similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGP_word_list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGP_word_list

eneuman 6y ago
The words aren't offensive, but the output sentences might be, so why risk it? I appreciate the reference to the PGP word list, I didn't know about it. One thing MadHash adds is a bit of structure in the form of <adjective> <noun> <adverb> <verb> <adjective> <noun> which should help make the phrases more memorable. Also, each sentence covers 64 bits, whereas the PGP word list covers just 2 bits per word.
- londons_explore 6y ago
  Having generated user passwords with dictionary[random()] a few times, I can tell you you will get angry users moaning about the fact you defaulted their password to "You Fat Pig", or "Dumb Looks". A surprising percentage of random combinations of innocuous words can be found offensive by someone, and automatic filtering is pretty much impossible.
  - eneuman 6y ago
    That's pretty funny, and you're right. I'm just avoiding the very obvious ones, but there will always be more!
  - paledot 6y ago
    At work I briefly experimented with naming releases deterministically based on the git hash and a common words list. I generated 20 random 3-word phrases as a quick proof of concept, and 3 of the 20 were easily construed as sexually suggestive. I filed a bug report with the English language, but it was rejected.
- trefil 6y ago
  Maybe you should consider telling your users not to get offended by machine generated semi-random strings of words.
- preinheimer 6y ago
  For a password generator we ended up going with something like three pieces: predefined word list, list of all the colours CSS supports, two digit number. I originally tried to use more of our own word list but the possibly offensive combinations drove us away. We're not making passwords anymore (yay!) but use it for like coupon code generation.
- dependenttypes 6y ago
  > the PGP word list covers just 2 bits per word huh? no, it covers 8 bits per word, just a bit less than yours (6 vs 8 words per 64 bits)
duskwuff 6y ago
There are a lot of potential words that those words could appear offensive in combination with. Looking through the current word list (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/e-neuman/madhash/master/public/dictionary.json https://raw.githubusercontent.com/e-neuman/madhash/master/pu...), a couple that come to mind are "power", "dominance", "curse", "immigration", "perfection", and "intelligence". (Some of those words should probably be removed from the list themselves, but that's besides the point.) TBH, I don't think the approach of picking words randomly from a dictionary is appropriate here. Not only does it have a tendency to leave in words which could cause offense, but it can also end up picking uncommon words which are hard to remember (like majdanek, szold, or palazzo) and groups of words which could easily be confused (politician and politics; psychiatrist, psychologist, and psychology; supervision and supervisor).

smiley1437 6y ago

My disappointment is immeasurable that I can't put in a Madhash and get the SHA-256 back ;)

eneuman 6y ago
I am so sorry, I'll do it tomorrow!

ketralnis 6y ago

See also rfc1751[1] which I use in a project[2] to make human readable fingerprints like this: === secrets.vm === common name: secrets.vm fingerprint: b957e10c998faa9909cff3ba4ec35485d04708c3ecc7481fe14d7f07bc0229cd public key: c15e697e4807793ef8a9461a7b2c6cf2266d1ec1480a594e83b54e7b75e07702 public sign: f1db594eb55fe97657c57f2aa01afd1210a46d42d80d5552ac4d548162d4968e mnemonic: AM ROBE KIT OMEN BATE ICY TROY RON WHAT HIP OMIT SUP LID CLAY AVER LEAR CAVE REEL CAN PAM FAN LUND RIFT ACME does that look right? [y/n] [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1751 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1751 [2]: https://github.com/ketralnis/secrets https://github.com/ketralnis/secrets

captn3m0 6y ago
I like the Telegram safety feature where they use Emojis as fingerprints.
- Jaxkr 6y ago
  Yeah, it’s very clever. Packs a lot more bytes into few characters.

zedgerman 6y ago

Neat idea! Btw: Consider renaming your list of offensive terms “denylist” or similar.

eneuman 6y ago
Good point! Thanks for the tip!
asdkhadsj 6y ago
What's the reasoning here? (not challenging you, just want to make sure I understand your thought process). I imagine it's something to do with the fact that some of the words won't be "offensive" by themselves, or perhaps even at all by all people. So naming it deny disassociates the reason from the word? Ie sometimes the word itself is offensive, sometimes it's fine but part of offensive combinations, etc etc?

curryhoward 6y ago

Another implementation of this idea: https://www.huffgram.com/ https://www.huffgram.com/

beagle3 6y ago

Relevant: https://web.archive.org/web/20090918202746/http://tothink.com/mnemonic/wordlist.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090918202746/http://tothink.co...