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Millions of people risking their lives to beg the government to stop murdering people and police engaging in widespread violent crackdown against those people d

by yoav 6y ago

Millions of people risking their lives to beg the government to stop murdering people and police engaging in widespread violent crackdown against those people demonstrating is exactly what happens in those countries. I don’t know how systematic police murder and beating up peaceful protestors looks different to you when it happens in the US and when it happens elsewhere. What is it about the anthem or flag that makes you see it differently? Look at Hong Kong protests, then look at police beating people in cities across the US it’s the same. What are the concessions from the US government? A few minor police reforms to encourage cops to stop killing minorities on camera, qualified immunity is still here, so basically nothing. At least China and Russia consider healthcare a human right like any developed country. The US health care system is depraved.

yoav 6y ago
Is the voter suppression that happens in the US, or the fact that the party with the least votes keeps getting into power because of an antiquated system that gives “former” slave states more power feel like democracy to you? Does the concentration camp network for refugees or muslim ban which was just extended to the end of the year feel different to China’s treatment of Uighurs to you? Why?
- obiye27 6y ago
  Voter suppression. And you want to compare that to the single party systems of China or Russia? Why do problems with US democracy make you want to abandon it and wallow in misery, and pretend like there is no hope in the world? Why can’t you have a teaspoon of strength and recognize the US is so much closer to real democracy than either of those countries? It’s pathetic.
hkmaxpro 6y ago
> Look at Hong Kong protests, then look at police beating people in cities across the US it’s the same. > What are the concessions from the US government? A few minor police reforms to encourage cops to stop killing minorities on camera, qualified immunity is still here, so basically nothing. US’s reaction is hugely different than HK’s. Not a single HK cop was actually penalized, let alone fired or charged, for their misconducts during the year long protests. The only HK cop that was charged was the one who posted posters criticizing the police force. [1] By contrast, numerous US cops were fired and charged. Not to mention two weeks before George Floyd was killed, a South Asian was also killed by HK cops by kneeing on his neck. [2] The victim’s name wasn’t made public, not a single HK cop was penalized, and they went on to keep doing the same to HK protesters a month later (no casualty this time) [3]. Disbanding the HK police is one of the core demands of Hong Kong protesters [4]. While US has made some police reforms, nothing like this happened in Hong Kong, except HK police just got more powerful under the new National Security Law. And you tell me US is the same as HK? [1] http://www.rfi.fr/tw/%E6%94%BF%E6%B2%BB/20200118-%E4%BC%91%E7%8F%AD%E9%98%B2%E6%9A%B4%E8%AD%A6%E5%BF%83%E5%9C%A8%E6%BC%A2%E8%B2%BC%E9%80%A3%E5%84%82%E7%89%86%E8%AB%B7%E5%88%BA%E4%B8%80%E5%93%A5%E8%A2%AB%E6%8D%95 http://www.rfi.fr/tw/%E6%94%BF%E6%B2%BB/20200118-%E4%BC%91%E... (in Chinese) [2] https://www.hk01.com/%E7%AA%81%E7%99%BC/471390/%E9%9D%9E%E8%8F%AF%E8%A3%94%E9%86%89%E6%BC%A2%E9%81%AD%E8%AD%A6%E5%88%B6%E6%9C%8D%E7%BF%8C%E6%97%A5%E6%AD%BB%E4%BA%A1-%E6%B6%88%E9%98%B2-%E7%94%B7%E5%AD%90%E5%9C%A8%E8%AD%A6%E8%BB%8A%E5%85%A7%E5%B7%B2%E7%84%A1%E5%91%BC%E5%90%B8%E8%84%88%E6%90%8F https://www.hk01.com/%E7%AA%81%E7%99%BC/471390/%E9%9D%9E%E8%... (in Chinese) [3] https://hongkongfp.com/2020/06/15/i-couldnt-breathe-hong-kong-police-say-neck-restraint-used-during-arrest-of-schoolgirl-was-within-protocol/ https://hongkongfp.com/2020/06/15/i-couldnt-breathe-hong-kon... [4] https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/2925727 https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/2925727 (in Chinese)
- yoav 6y ago
  For every cop held accountable there are hundreds more committing the same crimes who are protected by the state. While cell phones are a new invention where the protected class in the US is now seeing the oppression that many citizens have been living with, it’s not new. The state has known the whole time and intentionally hidden it. Doing the bare minimum is just PR, eg: cops kneeling with protestors and then an hour later using chemical weapons and beating on the same peaceful protestors. If the distinction is: China addresses challenges to oppression with censorship while the US addresses it with marketing and ineffectual “concessions” then we’re saying the same thing.
  - hkmaxpro 6y ago
    Please see my reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23695111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23695111
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  >And you tell me US is the same as HK? You are comparing what happened in one city against what happened across the entire country. Look at the actions of the NYPD during these protests. They have also received virtually no punishment despite their range of heinous acts. An occasional incident nationwide that drives up enough outrage to force a punishment doesn't grant us some moral high ground.
  - hkmaxpro 6y ago
    The parent comment compared the US to HK, so did I. Now I just focus on NYPD: NYPD charged an officer for using a chokehold. [1] No officer was charged in HK after the year long protests for their misconducts and brutality. Side note: Numerous HK protesters were also victims of sexual harassment or sexual violence during arrest or detention. A 19-year-old girl was gangraped by police officers in a police station and got pregnant, and the police threatened to arrest her for “making false statements”. She defended her claims and had to flee to Taiwan. [2][3] Any similar incident in NYC? [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/nyregion/nypd-officer-chokehold-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/nyregion/nypd-officer-cho... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ3-OZaEcCA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ3-OZaEcCA [3] https://hongkongfp.com/2020/05/13/hong-kong-woman-who-accused-officers-of-gang-rape-defends-claim-after-police-chief-says-she-must-be-arrested-for-lying/ https://hongkongfp.com/2020/05/13/hong-kong-woman-who-accuse...

by yoav 6y ago

yoav 6y ago

Is the voter suppression that happens in the US, or the fact that the party with the least votes keeps getting into power because of an antiquated system that gives “former” slave states more power feel like democracy to you? Does the concentration camp network for refugees or muslim ban which was just extended to the end of the year feel different to China’s treatment of Uighurs to you? Why?

obiye27 6y ago
Voter suppression. And you want to compare that to the single party systems of China or Russia? Why do problems with US democracy make you want to abandon it and wallow in misery, and pretend like there is no hope in the world? Why can’t you have a teaspoon of strength and recognize the US is so much closer to real democracy than either of those countries? It’s pathetic.

hkmaxpro 6y ago

> Look at Hong Kong protests, then look at police beating people in cities across the US it’s the same. > What are the concessions from the US government? A few minor police reforms to encourage cops to stop killing minorities on camera, qualified immunity is still here, so basically nothing. US’s reaction is hugely different than HK’s. Not a single HK cop was actually penalized, let alone fired or charged, for their misconducts during the year long protests. The only HK cop that was charged was the one who posted posters criticizing the police force. [1] By contrast, numerous US cops were fired and charged. Not to mention two weeks before George Floyd was killed, a South Asian was also killed by HK cops by kneeing on his neck. [2] The victim’s name wasn’t made public, not a single HK cop was penalized, and they went on to keep doing the same to HK protesters a month later (no casualty this time) [3]. Disbanding the HK police is one of the core demands of Hong Kong protesters [4]. While US has made some police reforms, nothing like this happened in Hong Kong, except HK police just got more powerful under the new National Security Law. And you tell me US is the same as HK? [1] http://www.rfi.fr/tw/%E6%94%BF%E6%B2%BB/20200118-%E4%BC%91%E7%8F%AD%E9%98%B2%E6%9A%B4%E8%AD%A6%E5%BF%83%E5%9C%A8%E6%BC%A2%E8%B2%BC%E9%80%A3%E5%84%82%E7%89%86%E8%AB%B7%E5%88%BA%E4%B8%80%E5%93%A5%E8%A2%AB%E6%8D%95 http://www.rfi.fr/tw/%E6%94%BF%E6%B2%BB/20200118-%E4%BC%91%E... (in Chinese) [2] https://www.hk01.com/%E7%AA%81%E7%99%BC/471390/%E9%9D%9E%E8%8F%AF%E8%A3%94%E9%86%89%E6%BC%A2%E9%81%AD%E8%AD%A6%E5%88%B6%E6%9C%8D%E7%BF%8C%E6%97%A5%E6%AD%BB%E4%BA%A1-%E6%B6%88%E9%98%B2-%E7%94%B7%E5%AD%90%E5%9C%A8%E8%AD%A6%E8%BB%8A%E5%85%A7%E5%B7%B2%E7%84%A1%E5%91%BC%E5%90%B8%E8%84%88%E6%90%8F https://www.hk01.com/%E7%AA%81%E7%99%BC/471390/%E9%9D%9E%E8%... (in Chinese) [3] https://hongkongfp.com/2020/06/15/i-couldnt-breathe-hong-kong-police-say-neck-restraint-used-during-arrest-of-schoolgirl-was-within-protocol/ https://hongkongfp.com/2020/06/15/i-couldnt-breathe-hong-kon... [4] https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/2925727 https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/2925727 (in Chinese)

yoav 6y ago
For every cop held accountable there are hundreds more committing the same crimes who are protected by the state. While cell phones are a new invention where the protected class in the US is now seeing the oppression that many citizens have been living with, it’s not new. The state has known the whole time and intentionally hidden it. Doing the bare minimum is just PR, eg: cops kneeling with protestors and then an hour later using chemical weapons and beating on the same peaceful protestors. If the distinction is: China addresses challenges to oppression with censorship while the US addresses it with marketing and ineffectual “concessions” then we’re saying the same thing.
- hkmaxpro 6y ago
  Please see my reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23695111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23695111
boomboomsubban 6y ago
>And you tell me US is the same as HK? You are comparing what happened in one city against what happened across the entire country. Look at the actions of the NYPD during these protests. They have also received virtually no punishment despite their range of heinous acts. An occasional incident nationwide that drives up enough outrage to force a punishment doesn't grant us some moral high ground.
- hkmaxpro 6y ago
  The parent comment compared the US to HK, so did I. Now I just focus on NYPD: NYPD charged an officer for using a chokehold. [1] No officer was charged in HK after the year long protests for their misconducts and brutality. Side note: Numerous HK protesters were also victims of sexual harassment or sexual violence during arrest or detention. A 19-year-old girl was gangraped by police officers in a police station and got pregnant, and the police threatened to arrest her for “making false statements”. She defended her claims and had to flee to Taiwan. [2][3] Any similar incident in NYC? [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/nyregion/nypd-officer-chokehold-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/nyregion/nypd-officer-cho... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ3-OZaEcCA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ3-OZaEcCA [3] https://hongkongfp.com/2020/05/13/hong-kong-woman-who-accused-officers-of-gang-rape-defends-claim-after-police-chief-says-she-must-be-arrested-for-lying/ https://hongkongfp.com/2020/05/13/hong-kong-woman-who-accuse...