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Products like this show that Apple could have an ARM based Mac Pro in two years relatively easily. They already have PCIe Gen 4. TDP and memory capacity is alre

Products like this show that Apple could have an ARM based Mac Pro in two years relatively easily. They already have PCIe Gen 4. TDP and memory capacity is already more than intel provides in the Xeon workstation line that they use.

jagger27 6y ago
It would be weird (and cool) if Apple ends up being the company to provide easy off the shelf access to a powerful Arm workstation.
- klelatti 6y ago
  More of a case of "skating to where the puck is going". I know it's a bit of a cliche but it feels to me like Apple might have got its timing right on this one.
  - ed25519FUUU 6y ago
    Timing is something Apple does really well. It's almost never the "first" to anything, but it waits until all of the stars align and then invest heavily.
    - nonesuchluck 6y ago
      It's not just heavy investment at their moment of need, it's also a habit of nurturing unlikely Plan B's for years and decades. - When Apple founded ARM in 1990 with Acorn and VLSI, they didn't know that silly cacheless chip would become a world-beating juggernaut. But hey, as founders, they now have a license to mold the microarchitecture however they like. - When Apple bought NeXT in 1997, they didn't know the sun was slowly setting on PowerPC. But they secretly nursed along the (already built) NeXTSTEP x86 port for years, until the time came to dust it off and start shipping product with Intel Inside. - When Apple forked KHTML in 2001 and started building WebCore/WebKit, they didn't know that MS was about to leave Internet Explorer to wither on the vine, nor release the final Mac IE only 2 years later. But they quietly invested in building such a konquering (sorry!) product that (with Google/MS help) we're now at risk of an entirely different browser monoculture.
      - fanf2 6y ago
        A small historical correction: the ARM3 (first ARM with a cache) predates the spin-off of ARM as a separate company. The Acorn Archimedes A540 (with ARM3) was released mid 1990 and ARM was founded later that year.
ed25519FUUU 6y ago
I think it’s a good time to invest in a Mac Pro. While working from home I’m asking myself the benefit of a laptop when a desktop could give me so much more performance.
- jeff_vader 6y ago
  I just did that when the whole lockdown happened - built a myself a AMD 3970x workstation. It's so good I do not want to go back to work laptop in the office.
  - ed25519FUUU 6y ago
    How are the thermals? I'm concerned about it making my small office hot.
    - hajimemash 6y ago
      Thermals have a subtle but huge effect on my room temp. My three devices of Macbook Pro, LG Ultrafine 5K and BenQ LED desklight together seem to add an extra 5-10 degrees to my small enclosed room temp. under load.
      - ed25519FUUU 6y ago
        I notice that my macbook pro stays "warm" when plugged into my screen, even if it's closed. I think it might have something to do with powering the USB or displayport connected devices. I now unplug my computer when I'm done, which is kind of annoying.
    - jeff_vader 6y ago
      Well.. It does have [TDP][1] of 280 watts. So if you ran it at full capacity all the time - it'd be roughly equivalent to 300 watts heater. But at that time you'd probably be more worried about the fan noise (which really depends on how you build it). Most of the time my machine is at very light load. Case exhaust is slightly warmer than ambient, but that's not a good metric. Unfortunately I do not have a power meter. I'd say heat is not a concern, but noise can be. It takes some time to figure out good fan curves to balance cpu temp vs noise. There may be some companies who do pre-built and well configured machines, but I haven't researched that at all. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
adrianmonk 6y ago
If they do that, I wonder whether it would make sense for Apple to get into the ARM server CPU business while they'are at it. Currently, the Intel Xeon is used in both high-end workstations and servers. If one x86 design can be suitable for both of those, presumably one ARM design could do the same. If they could sell server CPUs at a profit, then Apple could get more return on its design investment by getting into two markets. And they'd get more volume. Though apparently they'd be facing competition from Ampere and Amazon's Graviton.
- why_only_15 6y ago
  I've wondered for a long time if it would make sense for Apple to sell the A13 etc. to smart home device makers, on the theory that Apple can offer great HomeKit integration as well as a superior chip to anything else on the market (for e.g. video processing).

jagger27 6y ago

It would be weird (and cool) if Apple ends up being the company to provide easy off the shelf access to a powerful Arm workstation.

klelatti 6y ago
More of a case of "skating to where the puck is going". I know it's a bit of a cliche but it feels to me like Apple might have got its timing right on this one.
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  Timing is something Apple does really well. It's almost never the "first" to anything, but it waits until all of the stars align and then invest heavily.
  - nonesuchluck 6y ago
    It's not just heavy investment at their moment of need, it's also a habit of nurturing unlikely Plan B's for years and decades. - When Apple founded ARM in 1990 with Acorn and VLSI, they didn't know that silly cacheless chip would become a world-beating juggernaut. But hey, as founders, they now have a license to mold the microarchitecture however they like. - When Apple bought NeXT in 1997, they didn't know the sun was slowly setting on PowerPC. But they secretly nursed along the (already built) NeXTSTEP x86 port for years, until the time came to dust it off and start shipping product with Intel Inside. - When Apple forked KHTML in 2001 and started building WebCore/WebKit, they didn't know that MS was about to leave Internet Explorer to wither on the vine, nor release the final Mac IE only 2 years later. But they quietly invested in building such a konquering (sorry!) product that (with Google/MS help) we're now at risk of an entirely different browser monoculture.
    - fanf2 6y ago
      A small historical correction: the ARM3 (first ARM with a cache) predates the spin-off of ARM as a separate company. The Acorn Archimedes A540 (with ARM3) was released mid 1990 and ARM was founded later that year.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago

I think it’s a good time to invest in a Mac Pro. While working from home I’m asking myself the benefit of a laptop when a desktop could give me so much more performance.

jeff_vader 6y ago
I just did that when the whole lockdown happened - built a myself a AMD 3970x workstation. It's so good I do not want to go back to work laptop in the office.
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  How are the thermals? I'm concerned about it making my small office hot.
  - hajimemash 6y ago
    Thermals have a subtle but huge effect on my room temp. My three devices of Macbook Pro, LG Ultrafine 5K and BenQ LED desklight together seem to add an extra 5-10 degrees to my small enclosed room temp. under load.
    - ed25519FUUU 6y ago
      I notice that my macbook pro stays "warm" when plugged into my screen, even if it's closed. I think it might have something to do with powering the USB or displayport connected devices. I now unplug my computer when I'm done, which is kind of annoying.
  - jeff_vader 6y ago
    Well.. It does have [TDP][1] of 280 watts. So if you ran it at full capacity all the time - it'd be roughly equivalent to 300 watts heater. But at that time you'd probably be more worried about the fan noise (which really depends on how you build it). Most of the time my machine is at very light load. Case exhaust is slightly warmer than ambient, but that's not a good metric. Unfortunately I do not have a power meter. I'd say heat is not a concern, but noise can be. It takes some time to figure out good fan curves to balance cpu temp vs noise. There may be some companies who do pre-built and well configured machines, but I haven't researched that at all. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

adrianmonk 6y ago

If they do that, I wonder whether it would make sense for Apple to get into the ARM server CPU business while they'are at it. Currently, the Intel Xeon is used in both high-end workstations and servers. If one x86 design can be suitable for both of those, presumably one ARM design could do the same. If they could sell server CPUs at a profit, then Apple could get more return on its design investment by getting into two markets. And they'd get more volume. Though apparently they'd be facing competition from Ampere and Amazon's Graviton.

why_only_15 6y ago
I've wondered for a long time if it would make sense for Apple to sell the A13 etc. to smart home device makers, on the theory that Apple can offer great HomeKit integration as well as a superior chip to anything else on the market (for e.g. video processing).