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I find it interesting to consider the different affordances of society that have lead to dollar stores and convenience stores being a lower-class destination in

I find it interesting to consider the different affordances of society that have lead to dollar stores and convenience stores being a lower-class destination in America, while convenience stores in Japan are frequented by people from all social classes and seem to serve a real niche. The main difference I can think of is how cars and public transit are viewed and differ. In America, most people, excluding the poor and those in dense cities, have cars. The middle and upper class have ended up in "suburbia" in many parts of the country, where they've sprawled enough that any activity mandates taking the car. Those in this class all have lawns, and thus houses must spread enough that densely packed city blocks are really only for the lower class. This is in stark contrast to Japan. Trains are taken by people of all economic class, and neighborhoods are generally a little more dense. Cars are not the everyday staple of life. I think that difference leads to the need for a nearby corner-store that serves the small needs of life. The 6-pack of beer, the toothpaste and other small toiletries, the bread for breakfast. There's clearly this niche of more frequent smaller "neighborhood" stores in Japan. Why does it end up translating so poorly here, even in larger cities where we have public transit (though significantly worse) and we have relatively high density, relatively walkable, cities?

tathougies 6y ago
There's a lot of assumptions here. I'm not sure they're true. (1) Cities are getting richer and richer. More and more rich people are living in the cities, in dense urban environment. This is why America's urban housing stock is so expensive (2) Most poor people in America have cars. > Why does it end up translating so poorly here, even in larger cities where we have public transit (though significantly worse) and we have relatively high density, relatively walkable, cities? In large cities there are convenience stores everywhere?
tkgally 6y ago
Long-term resident of Japan here. I agree with what you say about public transportation. I'm always struck, when I return to the Los Angeles area on visits and go around by city bus, how overwhelmingly working class the bus ridership is. In Japan, especially in the urban areas, nearly everyone takes buses and trains. The Japanese parallel to the dollar stores described in the New Yorker article is not convenience stores, which are as you state, but hundred-yen shops. They tend to be in low-rent locations, they pay low salaries, and the clientele tends toward the working-class side. But the parallel doesn't go very far beyond that, as the problems of crime, food deserts, neighborhood decay, etc. described in the article are much less serious here (if they exist at all) than in the U.S.
- wirthjason 6y ago
  The quality at Daiso and such is lightyears above dollar stores in the US. It’s quite outstanding. In the US often to make those products cheaper something is reduced, it could be the the size for example. Aluminum foil might be $1 at Dollar General for an 8ft roll and $3 at Target for a 30ft roll, so the Target one is generally cheaper on a per unit basis. The $1 version has the lower nominal price and illusion of being cheaper. These stores then are not as cheap as they may seem. Brushing broad strokes with a wide brush, I also find the overall attention to detail and pride to be much better in Japan so the stores are cleaner, staff friendlier, etc. While the US counterparts are dirty, unorganized etc. The article makes it sound like a self-fulfilling prophecy. This reminds me of the broken window effect (which intuitively makes sense but may not actually be true).
  - musicale 6y ago
    > The quality at Daiso and such is lightyears above dollar stores in the US. It’s quite outstanding. I like Daiso quite a bit, even if it's more like a $1.50 store. I'd definitely trade a local Dollar Tree for a Daiso. I also hope that 7-11 stores in the US become more like 7-11 stores in Japan.
curryst 6y ago
Sprawl definitely plays a large part in this. In the suburbs, grocery stores are exceptionally common. There are 2 within walking distance of my house. I would pass by several large grocery stores before I hit a convenience store. It's also worth pointing out that the chains in this article aren't merely convenience stores, they're discount stores. They basically sell the cheapest version of everything. Their purpose is less about convenience, and more about competing on price. Convenience stores still thrive in American suburbia, just not in the places you think. Pharmacies typically also serve as a convenience store, selling non-perishable groceries, drinks, snacks, etc, etc. Gas stations typically have a selection of drinks and snacks, and usually very light groceries like salt, bread, and some pre-packaged "just add water" type meals. If you're not deep in a housing development, you're rarely more than a couple of blocks from somewhere you could buy bread and beer. There is also a negative perception of corner stores that makes them an undesirable part of many people's communities. They're associated with poverty, which creates a reinforcing cycle where wealthier neighborhoods will fight their existence, making them further associated with poverty.

tathougies 6y ago

There's a lot of assumptions here. I'm not sure they're true. (1) Cities are getting richer and richer. More and more rich people are living in the cities, in dense urban environment. This is why America's urban housing stock is so expensive (2) Most poor people in America have cars. > Why does it end up translating so poorly here, even in larger cities where we have public transit (though significantly worse) and we have relatively high density, relatively walkable, cities? In large cities there are convenience stores everywhere?

tkgally 6y ago

Long-term resident of Japan here. I agree with what you say about public transportation. I'm always struck, when I return to the Los Angeles area on visits and go around by city bus, how overwhelmingly working class the bus ridership is. In Japan, especially in the urban areas, nearly everyone takes buses and trains. The Japanese parallel to the dollar stores described in the New Yorker article is not convenience stores, which are as you state, but hundred-yen shops. They tend to be in low-rent locations, they pay low salaries, and the clientele tends toward the working-class side. But the parallel doesn't go very far beyond that, as the problems of crime, food deserts, neighborhood decay, etc. described in the article are much less serious here (if they exist at all) than in the U.S.

wirthjason 6y ago
The quality at Daiso and such is lightyears above dollar stores in the US. It’s quite outstanding. In the US often to make those products cheaper something is reduced, it could be the the size for example. Aluminum foil might be $1 at Dollar General for an 8ft roll and $3 at Target for a 30ft roll, so the Target one is generally cheaper on a per unit basis. The $1 version has the lower nominal price and illusion of being cheaper. These stores then are not as cheap as they may seem. Brushing broad strokes with a wide brush, I also find the overall attention to detail and pride to be much better in Japan so the stores are cleaner, staff friendlier, etc. While the US counterparts are dirty, unorganized etc. The article makes it sound like a self-fulfilling prophecy. This reminds me of the broken window effect (which intuitively makes sense but may not actually be true).
- musicale 6y ago
  > The quality at Daiso and such is lightyears above dollar stores in the US. It’s quite outstanding. I like Daiso quite a bit, even if it's more like a $1.50 store. I'd definitely trade a local Dollar Tree for a Daiso. I also hope that 7-11 stores in the US become more like 7-11 stores in Japan.

curryst 6y ago

Sprawl definitely plays a large part in this. In the suburbs, grocery stores are exceptionally common. There are 2 within walking distance of my house. I would pass by several large grocery stores before I hit a convenience store. It's also worth pointing out that the chains in this article aren't merely convenience stores, they're discount stores. They basically sell the cheapest version of everything. Their purpose is less about convenience, and more about competing on price. Convenience stores still thrive in American suburbia, just not in the places you think. Pharmacies typically also serve as a convenience store, selling non-perishable groceries, drinks, snacks, etc, etc. Gas stations typically have a selection of drinks and snacks, and usually very light groceries like salt, bread, and some pre-packaged "just add water" type meals. If you're not deep in a housing development, you're rarely more than a couple of blocks from somewhere you could buy bread and beer. There is also a negative perception of corner stores that makes them an undesirable part of many people's communities. They're associated with poverty, which creates a reinforcing cycle where wealthier neighborhoods will fight their existence, making them further associated with poverty.