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One more thing: In answer to Scrum advocates claiming its about doing it right I would disagree and replace it with understanding what is really (really REALLY)

by waschl 6y ago

One more thing: In answer to Scrum advocates claiming its about doing it right I would disagree and replace it with understanding what is really (really REALLY) the purpose and idea behind it. Don’t worship the cult and don’t fight it because it’s the perfect target of rants, but see the motivation behind it and acknowledge that there may be reasons why it makes sense how it is to some degree. This doesn’t only apply to Scrum but to any other interaction of humans.

dboat 6y ago
Could you explain what you mean by the real purpose and idea behind scrum?
- mongol 6y ago
  In short I would say, applying ideas from the agile manifesto while providing cadence and some predictability. But that is a personal opinion.
- waschl 6y ago
  Let me try: I think it’s about reflection and continuous improvement and providing a framework to enforce those. Scrum-haters in our group are also notorious for an attitude of negativity and resignation in many matters, while Scrum-friends want to improve all the time and find ways to do so, beyond what is obvious.
  - watwut 6y ago
    I think that Scrum leads to resignation for many people, because it takes away control out of individual and insists on everything being collective. So your personal options to improve or make decision becomes severely limited. Some people like it, because it allowed them to push themselves on the rest of the team. But people who dont thrive in such constant dominance conflict end up resentful and helpless.
    - riffraff 6y ago
      what control do you feel is taken away from individuals? I mean, you discuss tickets with the rest of your team, but that doesn't seem such a big loss of freedom.
      - watwut 6y ago
        All the control and all the autonomy I would say. There is nothing I would be responsible for where I can make own decision and have them right or wrong. In the teams where I liked to work, I felt control over order in which I do tasks and general shape of something I was responsible for. So I could make my own decisions, decisions that would be really mine. So when there was mess or something was late, it was my fault. I was not due to other people forcing me do things their way and I did not had to fight about every single detail, just because college happen to be anxious or control freak.
        mindcrime 6y ago
        So what process are you advocating for over scrum, that would restore this control and autonomy to you?
        watwut 6y ago
        Compared to scrum, pretty much any other, quite honestly. The majority of teams I was in did not used named process and for the most part I was alright. Usually there were bigger tasks assigned to people or smaller areas of responsibilities. For the record, I did not liked when leader had micromanagement/dictatorship tendencies either.
      - perlgeek 6y ago
        Control what to work, on for example. These days I sometimes decide not to work on the top priority issue right now, because I suspect it'll take a few hours of uninterrupted log file reading / debugging / thinking to fix, but the day already has three different meetings scheduled. If that's the last issue in the open sprint, choosing to add another issue to the sprint while there's still an open one tends to be a no-go, or at least causes some discussion, especially if the sprint closes without the issue being closed. Or sometimes I simply I don't feel like working on a particular issue right now. Maybe there's no rational reason for that. I have no problem overriding that impulse if I know somebody else (either a colleague or a customer) is blocked by the issue, but if it's a case of "we have happened to include issue A in the sprint, but not issue B", having to work on A instead of B against my preference causes unnecessary resentment.
  - eecc 6y ago
    In fact there’s no point in being “agile” in an organization that has no appetite for change (unless those are topdown, consultant-driven, marching orders). When you’re given the false hope optimization is possible, only to bump into 2-3 layers of middle management and just as many half-broken, Confluence spaces about the “one way of work” for the org... you just content yourself with features and tune out.
- teddyh 6y ago
  Robert C. Martin – The Land that Scrum Forgot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4LH6P8Syk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4LH6P8Syk

by waschl 6y ago

dboat 6y ago

Could you explain what you mean by the real purpose and idea behind scrum?

mongol 6y ago
In short I would say, applying ideas from the agile manifesto while providing cadence and some predictability. But that is a personal opinion.
waschl 6y ago
Let me try: I think it’s about reflection and continuous improvement and providing a framework to enforce those. Scrum-haters in our group are also notorious for an attitude of negativity and resignation in many matters, while Scrum-friends want to improve all the time and find ways to do so, beyond what is obvious.
- watwut 6y ago
  I think that Scrum leads to resignation for many people, because it takes away control out of individual and insists on everything being collective. So your personal options to improve or make decision becomes severely limited. Some people like it, because it allowed them to push themselves on the rest of the team. But people who dont thrive in such constant dominance conflict end up resentful and helpless.
  - riffraff 6y ago
    what control do you feel is taken away from individuals? I mean, you discuss tickets with the rest of your team, but that doesn't seem such a big loss of freedom.
    - watwut 6y ago
      All the control and all the autonomy I would say. There is nothing I would be responsible for where I can make own decision and have them right or wrong. In the teams where I liked to work, I felt control over order in which I do tasks and general shape of something I was responsible for. So I could make my own decisions, decisions that would be really mine. So when there was mess or something was late, it was my fault. I was not due to other people forcing me do things their way and I did not had to fight about every single detail, just because college happen to be anxious or control freak.
      - mindcrime 6y ago
        So what process are you advocating for over scrum, that would restore this control and autonomy to you?
        watwut 6y ago
        Compared to scrum, pretty much any other, quite honestly. The majority of teams I was in did not used named process and for the most part I was alright. Usually there were bigger tasks assigned to people or smaller areas of responsibilities. For the record, I did not liked when leader had micromanagement/dictatorship tendencies either.
    - perlgeek 6y ago
      Control what to work, on for example. These days I sometimes decide not to work on the top priority issue right now, because I suspect it'll take a few hours of uninterrupted log file reading / debugging / thinking to fix, but the day already has three different meetings scheduled. If that's the last issue in the open sprint, choosing to add another issue to the sprint while there's still an open one tends to be a no-go, or at least causes some discussion, especially if the sprint closes without the issue being closed. Or sometimes I simply I don't feel like working on a particular issue right now. Maybe there's no rational reason for that. I have no problem overriding that impulse if I know somebody else (either a colleague or a customer) is blocked by the issue, but if it's a case of "we have happened to include issue A in the sprint, but not issue B", having to work on A instead of B against my preference causes unnecessary resentment.
- eecc 6y ago
  In fact there’s no point in being “agile” in an organization that has no appetite for change (unless those are topdown, consultant-driven, marching orders). When you’re given the false hope optimization is possible, only to bump into 2-3 layers of middle management and just as many half-broken, Confluence spaces about the “one way of work” for the org... you just content yourself with features and tune out.
teddyh 6y ago
Robert C. Martin – The Land that Scrum Forgot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4LH6P8Syk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4LH6P8Syk