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I can't really see bank transfers taking of at the point of sale in the UK. Making a payment with most banking apps is very clunky - especially for the first ti

I can't really see bank transfers taking of at the point of sale in the UK. Making a payment with most banking apps is very clunky - especially for the first time with 2FA. As a consumer, a credit or debit card gives me a lot of protection. I wouldn't give that up for anything (oh, and the cashback I get too).

jiggunjer 6y ago
But I thought debit card = bank transfer? There is no protection?
- jpkoning 6y ago
  Yes, a debit card is a bank transfer. In the US, most PIN debit card transfers occur via either MasterCard's Maestro or Visa's Interlink debit networks. Signature debit payments go through MasterCard/Visa's credit card networks. So you've still got the duopoly problem.
- daveoc64 6y ago
  You can still do a chargeback with a debit card in the UK. If you have a basic consumer dispute about something (such as a retailer not giving a repair/refund for a faulty item), you should be able to file a chargeback with the card issuer and get a refund. In the UK, a credit card is much better though, as for any purchase over £100, the card issuer is joinly liable with the retailer for any issues. https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-7...
tappio 6y ago
That's what most people said 10 years ago about the mobile payments (mobile bank to bank transfers, not related apple or Google pay) in the Nordics, but no one is doubting it anymore.
- daveoc64 6y ago
  I don't see what the advantage would be. Apple Pay/Google Pay already offers near-instantaneous, highly-secure transactions in most stores - and with good consumer protection. Contactless cards offer the same up to £45. I can get cashback/miles/reward points too. What does a bank to bank transfer offer me as a consumer? The difference between the Nordic countries and elsewhere may be that 10 years ago, these contactless payment methods weren't widespread.
Symbiote 6y ago
It works like this in Denmark [1]. You open the MobilePay app, and touch the NFC thing. The amount and payee is shown, and you swipe to confirm the payment. The retailer's POS gets a message. In a small shop without a fancy POS system, they just print a paper QR code. You can scan that, but you need to type the amount yourself. [1] https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5564e82de4b0edcadf828dc3/1441909459584-YHZBW2W7Z74CDTY1UNMF/?content-type=image%2Fjpeg https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5564e82de4b0edcad...
bitreality 6y ago
I have some competitors in the UK who told me that if a single customer pays you from a frauded bank account, your entire bank account is closed permanently, and they investigate with the police. They also assume you are involved in the illegal activity and you have to interview at the bank. All this for what can amount to a 20-50 GBP payment, and even if it represents <1% of your transfer volume. If bank payments are going to become prevalent in e-commerce, this type of primitive reaction to fraud will need to improve drastically.

jiggunjer 6y ago

But I thought debit card = bank transfer? There is no protection?

jpkoning 6y ago
Yes, a debit card is a bank transfer. In the US, most PIN debit card transfers occur via either MasterCard's Maestro or Visa's Interlink debit networks. Signature debit payments go through MasterCard/Visa's credit card networks. So you've still got the duopoly problem.
daveoc64 6y ago
You can still do a chargeback with a debit card in the UK. If you have a basic consumer dispute about something (such as a retailer not giving a repair/refund for a faulty item), you should be able to file a chargeback with the card issuer and get a refund. In the UK, a credit card is much better though, as for any purchase over £100, the card issuer is joinly liable with the retailer for any issues. https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-7...

tappio 6y ago

That's what most people said 10 years ago about the mobile payments (mobile bank to bank transfers, not related apple or Google pay) in the Nordics, but no one is doubting it anymore.

daveoc64 6y ago
I don't see what the advantage would be. Apple Pay/Google Pay already offers near-instantaneous, highly-secure transactions in most stores - and with good consumer protection. Contactless cards offer the same up to £45. I can get cashback/miles/reward points too. What does a bank to bank transfer offer me as a consumer? The difference between the Nordic countries and elsewhere may be that 10 years ago, these contactless payment methods weren't widespread.

Symbiote 6y ago

It works like this in Denmark [1]. You open the MobilePay app, and touch the NFC thing. The amount and payee is shown, and you swipe to confirm the payment. The retailer's POS gets a message. In a small shop without a fancy POS system, they just print a paper QR code. You can scan that, but you need to type the amount yourself. [1] https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5564e82de4b0edcadf828dc3/1441909459584-YHZBW2W7Z74CDTY1UNMF/?content-type=image%2Fjpeg https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5564e82de4b0edcad...

bitreality 6y ago

I have some competitors in the UK who told me that if a single customer pays you from a frauded bank account, your entire bank account is closed permanently, and they investigate with the police. They also assume you are involved in the illegal activity and you have to interview at the bank. All this for what can amount to a 20-50 GBP payment, and even if it represents <1% of your transfer volume. If bank payments are going to become prevalent in e-commerce, this type of primitive reaction to fraud will need to improve drastically.