4 ms·

How would you pay for things online, many of which are not available in person? Or stores/airplanes/services that don't accept cash?

UnpossibleJim 6y ago
I can't think of a bank that doesn't use a card that works as a credit card when it comes to online transactions.
- omosubi 6y ago
  They're still visa or MasterCards though...
  - alt_f4 6y ago
    > Visa does not issue cards, extend credit or set rates and fees for consumers; rather, Visa provides financial institutions with Visa-branded payment products that they then use to offer credit, debit, prepaid and cash-access programs to their customers.
systemvoltage 6y ago
Debit cards? The other option is to use a Credit Card but pay off at the end of the month. Why is that so difficult? That’s literally like a Debit card except for the additional “buffer” of safety and security from your bank account.
- komali2 6y ago
  Every debit card I've had has still involved a credit card company in some way - they've all had the visa logo on them.
  - systemvoltage 6y ago
    That's true, I am not too familiar with the finance system, how come a debit card needs a middle man such as VISA? They help with the transaction between two banks?
    - kazinator 6y ago
      The situation is that there is a network called Visa Debit that some banks use for their network for debit transactions. It may seem new, but it evidently dates back as far as 1982. I'm in Canada. With one exception, no bank client card I have had (which were all usable for debit) had any Visa logo on it. That includes current ones. The exception is one TD client card. The situation is explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Debit#Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Debit#Canada TD is one of the banks that offer Visa Debit. This TD client card is also Interac-branded, so I'm guessing that the card will use the Interac network for domestic transactions, and in that case its Visa Debit personality does not come into play. Those are not the only two networks for debit/ATM in Canada. There is also "The Exchange": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accel_(interbank_network)#The_Exchange_Network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accel_(interbank_network)#The_... (used by a lot of smaller banks and credit unions). The Canadian Credit Union Association also runs an ATM network called AccuLink. It's important to know which network your card uses if you want "ding free" transactions. E.g a "The Exchange" card can be used at an "Interac" ATM, but there will be a fee.
  - alt_f4 6y ago
    For fuck's sake, do some basic research. Literally at the top of the wikipedia article: > Visa does not issue cards, extend credit or set rates and fees for consumers; rather, Visa provides financial institutions with Visa-branded payment products that they then use to offer credit, debit, prepaid and cash-access programs to their customers.
    - omosubi 6y ago
      That doesn't make it any less of a duopoly. The whole point of the article is that visa/mc have too much power and there is a lot of systemic risk by having only two competitors in this industry in particular. Even if they aren't extending credit they're still facilitating the transaction - it's not like the visa sticker is on there for marketing purposes
      - alt_f4 6y ago
        Not what we're talking about in the OP comment.
        komali2 6y ago
        That's what I was talking about - even if they aren't charging fees, they're involved. There's plenty of cases in technology where "but we don't do anything with your data!" is not a good enough excuse. Many of us still argue for decentralization or federation or user controlled data, etc. Similar concerns I have for visa.
    - komali2 6y ago
      I get the impression you don't think much of me. That's ok, but why did you feel the need to tell me?
      - omosubi 6y ago
        alt_f4 is a troll. I don't think they understand what we're arguing about lol
alt_f4 6y ago
Everyone in Europe uses debit cards. You don't have debit cards in the US? It's a plastic card, it is issued by your bank, it's still using the visa/mastercard network, but instead of credit, it is tied to actual funds in your bank account.

UnpossibleJim 6y ago

I can't think of a bank that doesn't use a card that works as a credit card when it comes to online transactions.

omosubi 6y ago
They're still visa or MasterCards though...
- alt_f4 6y ago
  > Visa does not issue cards, extend credit or set rates and fees for consumers; rather, Visa provides financial institutions with Visa-branded payment products that they then use to offer credit, debit, prepaid and cash-access programs to their customers.

systemvoltage 6y ago

Debit cards? The other option is to use a Credit Card but pay off at the end of the month. Why is that so difficult? That’s literally like a Debit card except for the additional “buffer” of safety and security from your bank account.

komali2 6y ago
Every debit card I've had has still involved a credit card company in some way - they've all had the visa logo on them.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  That's true, I am not too familiar with the finance system, how come a debit card needs a middle man such as VISA? They help with the transaction between two banks?
  - kazinator 6y ago
    The situation is that there is a network called Visa Debit that some banks use for their network for debit transactions. It may seem new, but it evidently dates back as far as 1982. I'm in Canada. With one exception, no bank client card I have had (which were all usable for debit) had any Visa logo on it. That includes current ones. The exception is one TD client card. The situation is explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Debit#Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Debit#Canada TD is one of the banks that offer Visa Debit. This TD client card is also Interac-branded, so I'm guessing that the card will use the Interac network for domestic transactions, and in that case its Visa Debit personality does not come into play. Those are not the only two networks for debit/ATM in Canada. There is also "The Exchange": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accel_(interbank_network)#The_Exchange_Network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accel_(interbank_network)#The_... (used by a lot of smaller banks and credit unions). The Canadian Credit Union Association also runs an ATM network called AccuLink. It's important to know which network your card uses if you want "ding free" transactions. E.g a "The Exchange" card can be used at an "Interac" ATM, but there will be a fee.
- alt_f4 6y ago
  For fuck's sake, do some basic research. Literally at the top of the wikipedia article: > Visa does not issue cards, extend credit or set rates and fees for consumers; rather, Visa provides financial institutions with Visa-branded payment products that they then use to offer credit, debit, prepaid and cash-access programs to their customers.
  - omosubi 6y ago
    That doesn't make it any less of a duopoly. The whole point of the article is that visa/mc have too much power and there is a lot of systemic risk by having only two competitors in this industry in particular. Even if they aren't extending credit they're still facilitating the transaction - it's not like the visa sticker is on there for marketing purposes
    - alt_f4 6y ago
      Not what we're talking about in the OP comment.
      - komali2 6y ago
        That's what I was talking about - even if they aren't charging fees, they're involved. There's plenty of cases in technology where "but we don't do anything with your data!" is not a good enough excuse. Many of us still argue for decentralization or federation or user controlled data, etc. Similar concerns I have for visa.
  - komali2 6y ago
    I get the impression you don't think much of me. That's ok, but why did you feel the need to tell me?
    - omosubi 6y ago
      alt_f4 is a troll. I don't think they understand what we're arguing about lol

alt_f4 6y ago

Everyone in Europe uses debit cards. You don't have debit cards in the US? It's a plastic card, it is issued by your bank, it's still using the visa/mastercard network, but instead of credit, it is tied to actual funds in your bank account.