4 ms·

https://aapsonline.org/preliminary-injunction-sought-to-release-hydroxychloroquine-to-the-public/ https://aapsonline.org/preliminary-injunction-sought-to-rele..

https://aapsonline.org/preliminary-injunction-sought-to-release-hydroxychloroquine-to-the-public/ https://aapsonline.org/preliminary-injunction-sought-to-rele... more: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23405435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23405435 and: https://defyccc.com/another-junk-anti-hydroxychloroquine-study-2/ https://defyccc.com/another-junk-anti-hydroxychloroquine-stu...

acqq 6y ago
From that link: "AAPS files with the court a chart showing how countries that encourage HCQ use, such as South Korea, India, Turkey, Russia, and Israel, have been far more successful in combatting COVID-19 than countries that have banned or discouraged early HCQ use, as the FDA has." However: that chart is totally misleading, it's a typical "non sequitur". "Case fatality rate" is just a ratio "death" through "cases". Where those with weaker symptoms are recognized as "cases" the rate is lower. How they are recognized is not the same across different countries.
- jakeogh 6y ago
  Agreed. Excess mortality is the real measure. Note, you seem to be posting studies that did not pair HCQ with zinc, _and_ are not using it prophylactically. Is my understanding correct? For example: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-di... links to https://www.recoverytrial.net/files/hcq-recovery-statement-050620-final-002.pdf https://www.recoverytrial.net/files/hcq-recovery-statement-0... which does not mention zinc, and it's patients admitted to the hospital (not prophylactic). Digging further, to the source given in that pdf, not a mention of zinc: https://www.recoverytrial.net/@@search?SearchableText=zinc https://www.recoverytrial.net/@@search?SearchableText=zinc which is the whole point of using HCQ in the first place.
  - acqq 6y ago
    > you seem to be posting studies that did not pair HCQ with zinc I'm just posting studies that were the basis for what FDA decided June 15, 2020 (1): "FDA has revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19 in certain hospitalized patients when a clinical trial is unavailable or participation is not feasible. We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery." And I don't have more information than that. 1) https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-c...
rsynnott 6y ago
Note that while AAPS presents as a proper organisation, its previous greatest hits include HIV denialism, vaccine/autism conspiracy theory pushing and “smoking is fine actually” stuff. It’s not a proper medical organisation. If it said water was wet, I would be checking.
- acqq 6y ago
  Thanks. It also has just 5000 members! From Wikipedia: "The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a conservative non-profit association founded in 1943. The group was reported to have about 5,000 members in 2014. The association has promoted a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism. It is opposed to the Affordable Care Act and other forms of universal health insurance." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physic...

acqq 6y ago

From that link: "AAPS files with the court a chart showing how countries that encourage HCQ use, such as South Korea, India, Turkey, Russia, and Israel, have been far more successful in combatting COVID-19 than countries that have banned or discouraged early HCQ use, as the FDA has." However: that chart is totally misleading, it's a typical "non sequitur". "Case fatality rate" is just a ratio "death" through "cases". Where those with weaker symptoms are recognized as "cases" the rate is lower. How they are recognized is not the same across different countries.

jakeogh 6y ago
Agreed. Excess mortality is the real measure. Note, you seem to be posting studies that did not pair HCQ with zinc, _and_ are not using it prophylactically. Is my understanding correct? For example: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-di... links to https://www.recoverytrial.net/files/hcq-recovery-statement-050620-final-002.pdf https://www.recoverytrial.net/files/hcq-recovery-statement-0... which does not mention zinc, and it's patients admitted to the hospital (not prophylactic). Digging further, to the source given in that pdf, not a mention of zinc: https://www.recoverytrial.net/@@search?SearchableText=zinc https://www.recoverytrial.net/@@search?SearchableText=zinc which is the whole point of using HCQ in the first place.
- acqq 6y ago
  > you seem to be posting studies that did not pair HCQ with zinc I'm just posting studies that were the basis for what FDA decided June 15, 2020 (1): "FDA has revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) to use hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat COVID-19 in certain hospitalized patients when a clinical trial is unavailable or participation is not feasible. We made this determination based on recent results from a large, randomized clinical trial in hospitalized patients that found these medicines showed no benefit for decreasing the likelihood of death or speeding recovery." And I don't have more information than that. 1) https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-c...

rsynnott 6y ago

Note that while AAPS presents as a proper organisation, its previous greatest hits include HIV denialism, vaccine/autism conspiracy theory pushing and “smoking is fine actually” stuff. It’s not a proper medical organisation. If it said water was wet, I would be checking.

acqq 6y ago
Thanks. It also has just 5000 members! From Wikipedia: "The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a conservative non-profit association founded in 1943. The group was reported to have about 5,000 members in 2014. The association has promoted a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism. It is opposed to the Affordable Care Act and other forms of universal health insurance." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physic...