4 ms·

I don’t even want these 16 api’s. I want a way to do notifications and a way to store more than 50 mb on ios. Sure, make me and the user jump through hoops to m

by Joeri 6y ago

I don’t even want these 16 api’s. I want a way to do notifications and a way to store more than 50 mb on ios. Sure, make me and the user jump through hoops to make sure I’m not abusive, but with those two there are a ton of apps which I can build as pwa’s. The app clips feature they showed? That should have been a qr code triggered pwa with notifications, except everybody had to build it as an app because they couldn’t do notifications, and then apple used the cumbersome nature of those apps as the reason for app clips. It’s the snake eating its own tail, and I’m getting IE6 vibes because microsoft also strategically stopped improving IE for web apps because they wanted to push app developers to native because of the improved user experience. Yeah, the web is worse, but worse is better.

larme 6y ago
I’m very glad a web page cannot store 50mb data and send notification to me. You only think from a developer’s perspective. What if you are the user receiving 50 notification requirement a day from a web browser?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- danudey 6y ago
  Then you tap on the notification and say "turn off" and then it stops happening.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    I don't want that notification.
  - jakear 6y ago
    This isn’t able notifications, this is about the “do you want to allow notifications” prompts. Crazy how in the same HN community you have people on one post complaining that there are too damn many cookie/gdpr/etc prompts, then on the next post asking for additional notification prompts. What ever happened to going to a website and consuming its content and leaving? I get that making an app instead of a PWA is a pain the in the ass, but the reason I pay $$$ to Apple is so that pains like that exist in the developer’s ass instead of mine. I want to be in their walled garden and I want them to keep lazy developers and poor UX out.
    - schwartzworld 6y ago
      > Whatever happened to going to a website and consuming it's content and leaving? The internet became more powerful so it does more things. The PWA spec allows for zero-install apps that are just as performant (or more) than native apps. You can view their network requests in the console, and they run in a sandboxed environment. You want to download and install a binary for something that can be accomplished in a few kb of cached JavaScript?
      - jakear 6y ago
        I don’t want any websites sending me any notifications ever. I don’t want any websites triggering the browser to ask me if they can send me notifications. I don’t want any websites asking me if they can ask the browser to ask me to send me notifications. I don’t want any websites using their classic scams like tiny “x” buttons that have insufficient contrast and are impossible to click on a mobile device anyways to ask me if they can ask the browser to send me notifications. I don’t want to see my grandma dealing with scammers who trick her into allowing potentially phicious notifications that she doesn’t know how to cancel, or even what the source is. I want developers to jump through as many bullshit hoops as possible before even having the chance to send me notifications. Apple and their review prices help me out there, and for all above points. It seems to me like you believe everyone is the same as you: they value small package size, they personally audit all code they run, they want random corporations to have an easier time getting a presence on their home screen, and they’d be able to easily identify and stop all corporate badgering they do end up receiving. I don’t think any of those are true even for me (someone in the industry), let alone the population at large.
        swiley 6y ago
        > I don’t want any websites sending me any notifications ever. > I don’t want any websites triggering the browser to ask me if they can send me notifications That’s fine for you but some of us who are in niche communities or have weird applications don’t want to wait for a VC to fund the development of a native app. Right now I can’t get notifications from IRC at all which pushes me and everyone else to centralized chat services. This has distorted the evolution of the internet and I would argue has contributed heavily to the “fake news” problem. > It seems to me like you believe everyone is the same as you You’re projecting. We want a feature that the user can disable, not ever being able to use this at all means everyone has to want the same things you do.
- untog 6y ago
  What if you are a user receiving 50 notifications a day from an app? You block them. Same with the web app. People have very strict mental models of what “the web” and “native” should do but they’re not actually based on anything. There’s no actual reason why a web app sending you notifications (which it has to prompt for permission to do) is different to an app doing it. From the non developer perspective the divide makes no sense. Not to mention the privacy argument by Apple feels disingenuous. The reason people are so outraged by tracking on the web is because they know it’s happening. Meanwhile native apps include bundles from Facebook to implement sign in with Facebook and it does whatever it wants. But because you can’t inspect and check no one talks about it.

by Joeri 6y ago

larme 6y ago

I’m very glad a web page cannot store 50mb data and send notification to me. You only think from a developer’s perspective. What if you are the user receiving 50 notification requirement a day from a web browser?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
danudey 6y ago
Then you tap on the notification and say "turn off" and then it stops happening.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  I don't want that notification.
- jakear 6y ago
  This isn’t able notifications, this is about the “do you want to allow notifications” prompts. Crazy how in the same HN community you have people on one post complaining that there are too damn many cookie/gdpr/etc prompts, then on the next post asking for additional notification prompts. What ever happened to going to a website and consuming its content and leaving? I get that making an app instead of a PWA is a pain the in the ass, but the reason I pay $$$ to Apple is so that pains like that exist in the developer’s ass instead of mine. I want to be in their walled garden and I want them to keep lazy developers and poor UX out.
  - schwartzworld 6y ago
    > Whatever happened to going to a website and consuming it's content and leaving? The internet became more powerful so it does more things. The PWA spec allows for zero-install apps that are just as performant (or more) than native apps. You can view their network requests in the console, and they run in a sandboxed environment. You want to download and install a binary for something that can be accomplished in a few kb of cached JavaScript?
    - jakear 6y ago
      I don’t want any websites sending me any notifications ever. I don’t want any websites triggering the browser to ask me if they can send me notifications. I don’t want any websites asking me if they can ask the browser to ask me to send me notifications. I don’t want any websites using their classic scams like tiny “x” buttons that have insufficient contrast and are impossible to click on a mobile device anyways to ask me if they can ask the browser to send me notifications. I don’t want to see my grandma dealing with scammers who trick her into allowing potentially phicious notifications that she doesn’t know how to cancel, or even what the source is. I want developers to jump through as many bullshit hoops as possible before even having the chance to send me notifications. Apple and their review prices help me out there, and for all above points. It seems to me like you believe everyone is the same as you: they value small package size, they personally audit all code they run, they want random corporations to have an easier time getting a presence on their home screen, and they’d be able to easily identify and stop all corporate badgering they do end up receiving. I don’t think any of those are true even for me (someone in the industry), let alone the population at large.
      - swiley 6y ago
        > I don’t want any websites sending me any notifications ever. > I don’t want any websites triggering the browser to ask me if they can send me notifications That’s fine for you but some of us who are in niche communities or have weird applications don’t want to wait for a VC to fund the development of a native app. Right now I can’t get notifications from IRC at all which pushes me and everyone else to centralized chat services. This has distorted the evolution of the internet and I would argue has contributed heavily to the “fake news” problem. > It seems to me like you believe everyone is the same as you You’re projecting. We want a feature that the user can disable, not ever being able to use this at all means everyone has to want the same things you do.
untog 6y ago
What if you are a user receiving 50 notifications a day from an app? You block them. Same with the web app. People have very strict mental models of what “the web” and “native” should do but they’re not actually based on anything. There’s no actual reason why a web app sending you notifications (which it has to prompt for permission to do) is different to an app doing it. From the non developer perspective the divide makes no sense. Not to mention the privacy argument by Apple feels disingenuous. The reason people are so outraged by tracking on the web is because they know it’s happening. Meanwhile native apps include bundles from Facebook to implement sign in with Facebook and it does whatever it wants. But because you can’t inspect and check no one talks about it.