4 ms·

I am wondering, Wikipedia claims that the active metabolite of this drug is a medicine for cats sold on black market; what is the price? I am sure it is way les

I am wondering, Wikipedia claims that the active metabolite of this drug is a medicine for cats sold on black market; what is the price? I am sure it is way less than the ridiculous price they want for Remdesivir.

catalogia 6y ago
Black market cat drugs? Do you have a death wish or something?
- SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
  Sometimes you have no choice, I guess.
- lisper 6y ago
  People using fish antibiotics on themselves is a thing: https://www.thebugoutbagguide.com/fish-antibiotics-for-humans/ https://www.thebugoutbagguide.com/fish-antibiotics-for-human...
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  A chemical is a chemical. And people close to dying can be desperate.
  - catalogia 6y ago
    > a chemical is a chemical Is it actually the chemical though? 'Blackmarket pet drug' is the perfect storm of poor accountability. Who the fuck knows what it actually is?
    - whymauri 6y ago
      I mean, if there's an MSDS, verified structural information, etc, then anyone can know what it is.
    - HarryHirsch 6y ago
      People have looked into drugs for erectile dysfunction that you buy over the Internet. They actually are when they claim to be on the tin and work as advertised. Well, if you rely on repeat customers and word of mouth that's the expected outcome. You'd expect the same for wealthy people with very sick cats.
      - newsbinator 6y ago
        Sometimes the repeat customers and word of mouth reliance doesn't work out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal
        corty 6y ago
        On the other hand, even reputable pharmacies have fallen victim to fake drugs. For a layman customer, it is hard to impossible to judge anything here. Most still go by the "reliable pharmacy", but there are intentional availability hurdles in the pharmacy system.
        catalogia 6y ago
        Risk isn't binary. There's certainly no such thing as "zero risk" for somebody buying pharmaceuticals, but I don't think it should be so controversial to say that buying blackmarket pet drugs is a riskier activity than going to a properly licensed pharmacist.
roywiggins 6y ago
Apparently as much as $12,000 for a 12-week course. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/remdesivir-cats/611341/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/remdesiv... Gilead is charging less than that for Remdesivir. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gilead-coronavirus-treatment-remdesivir-private-insurance-cost/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gilead-coronavirus-treatment-re...
- SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
  I was wrong then. So cat owners should start buying remdesivir then.
  - ethbro 6y ago
    > So cat owners should start buying remdesivir then Yes! For many reasons. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0422-covid-19-cats-NYC.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0422-covid-19-cats-...
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  They used to be quite a bit cheaper, around 600$ for an 8 week course. The price increase is concerning.
- xtracto 6y ago
  Wow No wonder Latin American countries are using cheap Ivermectin which also has been a success to fight covid19. And no wonder it's not being researched that much in capitalist countries. It will never be as profitable as these other drugs.
  - HarryHirsch 6y ago
    They are trying ivermectin because at this stage of the pandemic you can only do drug repurposing, to get anything new from bench into clinic takes five years. Everyone would love to see 3CL protease inhibitors, but they aren't near ready. A quick search turns up over two dozen clinical trials with ivermectin, not all of them taking place in threshold countries. Israel, Spain, Mexico, Singapore are all highly developed countries.
vikramkr 6y ago
The price they're asking is pretty reasonable. A couple thousand bucks for a few percent increased chance of survival is well below the benchmark set by drugs in less public disease areas. If this was a cancer drug they'd be charging an order of magnitude more. Edit: ICER, which is a drug price watchdog, suggested using a value added analysis that the max price remdesivir could justify was 4500[1]. ICER is not pharma's friend, and they dont usually end up suggesting a max price twice what the pharma company charges[2]. [1]https://icer-review.org/announcements/alternative_pricing_models_for_remdesivir/ https://icer-review.org/announcements/alternative_pricing_mo... [2]https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/parp-drugs-from-az-clovis-and-tesaro-are-largely-overpriced-watchdog-says https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/parp-drugs-from-az-clovi...
- fennecfoxen 6y ago
  It's not just a good deal for survival, either, it's worth an accounting profit to the hospitals: > On average, the drug should help reduce hospital costs by $12,000 a patient, said [Chief Executive Daniel O’Day]. Gilead estimated the savings based on data showing that each day of hospitalization costs $3,000 and that patients taking remdesivir are discharged four days sooner than those receiving standard treatment, Mr. O’Day said. https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-drug-remdesivir-to-cost-3-120-for-typical-patient-11593428402 https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-drug-remdesivir-to-cos...
  - SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
    You are do not live in developing world, like I do. Hosptal costs to treat a single patient here is below $3000. So Remdesevir here is completely unaffordable.
    - fennecfoxen 6y ago
      Well if you're in the developing world, you will benefit from Gilead's use of price discrimination. > The company said it has entered into agreements with generic manufacturers to provide the drug at a “substantially lower cost” in developing countries. — https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/gileads-coronavirus-treatment-remdesivir-to-cost-3120-for-us-insured-patients.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/gileads-coronavirus-treatmen...

catalogia 6y ago

Black market cat drugs? Do you have a death wish or something?

SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
Sometimes you have no choice, I guess.
lisper 6y ago
People using fish antibiotics on themselves is a thing: https://www.thebugoutbagguide.com/fish-antibiotics-for-humans/ https://www.thebugoutbagguide.com/fish-antibiotics-for-human...
kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
A chemical is a chemical. And people close to dying can be desperate.
- catalogia 6y ago
  > a chemical is a chemical Is it actually the chemical though? 'Blackmarket pet drug' is the perfect storm of poor accountability. Who the fuck knows what it actually is?
  - whymauri 6y ago
    I mean, if there's an MSDS, verified structural information, etc, then anyone can know what it is.
  - HarryHirsch 6y ago
    People have looked into drugs for erectile dysfunction that you buy over the Internet. They actually are when they claim to be on the tin and work as advertised. Well, if you rely on repeat customers and word of mouth that's the expected outcome. You'd expect the same for wealthy people with very sick cats.
    - newsbinator 6y ago
      Sometimes the repeat customers and word of mouth reliance doesn't work out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal
      - corty 6y ago
        On the other hand, even reputable pharmacies have fallen victim to fake drugs. For a layman customer, it is hard to impossible to judge anything here. Most still go by the "reliable pharmacy", but there are intentional availability hurdles in the pharmacy system.
        catalogia 6y ago
        Risk isn't binary. There's certainly no such thing as "zero risk" for somebody buying pharmaceuticals, but I don't think it should be so controversial to say that buying blackmarket pet drugs is a riskier activity than going to a properly licensed pharmacist.

roywiggins 6y ago

Apparently as much as $12,000 for a 12-week course. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/remdesivir-cats/611341/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/remdesiv... Gilead is charging less than that for Remdesivir. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gilead-coronavirus-treatment-remdesivir-private-insurance-cost/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gilead-coronavirus-treatment-re...

SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
I was wrong then. So cat owners should start buying remdesivir then.
- ethbro 6y ago
  > So cat owners should start buying remdesivir then Yes! For many reasons. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0422-covid-19-cats-NYC.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0422-covid-19-cats-...
sudosysgen 6y ago
They used to be quite a bit cheaper, around 600$ for an 8 week course. The price increase is concerning.
xtracto 6y ago
Wow No wonder Latin American countries are using cheap Ivermectin which also has been a success to fight covid19. And no wonder it's not being researched that much in capitalist countries. It will never be as profitable as these other drugs.
- HarryHirsch 6y ago
  They are trying ivermectin because at this stage of the pandemic you can only do drug repurposing, to get anything new from bench into clinic takes five years. Everyone would love to see 3CL protease inhibitors, but they aren't near ready. A quick search turns up over two dozen clinical trials with ivermectin, not all of them taking place in threshold countries. Israel, Spain, Mexico, Singapore are all highly developed countries.

vikramkr 6y ago

The price they're asking is pretty reasonable. A couple thousand bucks for a few percent increased chance of survival is well below the benchmark set by drugs in less public disease areas. If this was a cancer drug they'd be charging an order of magnitude more. Edit: ICER, which is a drug price watchdog, suggested using a value added analysis that the max price remdesivir could justify was 4500[1]. ICER is not pharma's friend, and they dont usually end up suggesting a max price twice what the pharma company charges[2]. [1]https://icer-review.org/announcements/alternative_pricing_models_for_remdesivir/ https://icer-review.org/announcements/alternative_pricing_mo... [2]https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/parp-drugs-from-az-clovis-and-tesaro-are-largely-overpriced-watchdog-says https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/parp-drugs-from-az-clovi...

fennecfoxen 6y ago
It's not just a good deal for survival, either, it's worth an accounting profit to the hospitals: > On average, the drug should help reduce hospital costs by $12,000 a patient, said [Chief Executive Daniel O’Day]. Gilead estimated the savings based on data showing that each day of hospitalization costs $3,000 and that patients taking remdesivir are discharged four days sooner than those receiving standard treatment, Mr. O’Day said. https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-drug-remdesivir-to-cost-3-120-for-typical-patient-11593428402 https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-drug-remdesivir-to-cos...
- SomeoneFromCA 6y ago
  You are do not live in developing world, like I do. Hosptal costs to treat a single patient here is below $3000. So Remdesevir here is completely unaffordable.
  - fennecfoxen 6y ago
    Well if you're in the developing world, you will benefit from Gilead's use of price discrimination. > The company said it has entered into agreements with generic manufacturers to provide the drug at a “substantially lower cost” in developing countries. — https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/gileads-coronavirus-treatment-remdesivir-to-cost-3120-for-us-insured-patients.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/gileads-coronavirus-treatmen...