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It's good that you read Hey's blog post and are repeating it here, but it's not very accurate in this case. Specifically, if you implement Sign In with Apple,

It's good that you read Hey's blog post and are repeating it here, but it's not very accurate in this case. Specifically, if you implement Sign In with Apple, then they are still your customers as much as ever, they just might choose to hide their information from you because they don't trust you, which means that the power in the relationship is transferred to the user instead of the app developer.

nicky0 6y ago
Except that in many cases the email address is an obfuscated one controlled by apple, so Apple really is a gatekeeper between the user and the service.
- ianmobbs 6y ago
  No more so than Gmail/Yahoo Mail/etc is for the average end user
  - VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
    Yes and it applies to them too
muro 6y ago
Transferred to Apple more than the user.
- enos_feedler 6y ago
  Apple operates on behalf of the user. Apple saw users with throwaway/burner email addresses and said why not make this easier for everyone?
  - hu3 6y ago
    Apple operates on behalf of profit. As it should.
  - muro 6y ago
    As long as they don't try to switch
blendergeek 6y ago
> "Apple reserves the right to disable Sign in with Apple on a website or app for any reason at any time." I think GP is absolutely right here. Apple can take the customers at any time for any reason. Apple could ban you from using Sign in with Apple simply because Tim Cook doesn't like what food you eat for breakfast. So, I have to agree with GP that these are Apple's customers at this point.
- no_wizard 6y ago
  The check on this is that you are now putting an inconvenience on that apps users. Maybe it’s okay in some isolated circumstance however, I imagine this won’t sit well if it becomes a reoccurring theme for iOS users, as they will come to view Sign In With Apple as unstable/unsafe (like Google and it’s graveyard). It would quickly render Sign In With Apple useless if the trust that it will continue to work whenever used is not there I actually think this wouldn’t really happen in practice as consumers are quick to respond negatively to this behavior, so I’d be shocked if Apple actually did this without some darn good reason (I imagine it will also include removing said app)
  - wvenable 6y ago
    > The check on this is that you are now putting an inconvenience on that apps users. That hasn't stopped Apple from remove apps or preventing updates -- clearly inconveniences on users -- for whatever reasons they want. It has happened and it will happen again. There is no check on this unless your app's audience is Netflix/Spotify/Facebook huge. If you're just an average developer you can be killed off at any time.
    - no_wizard 6y ago
      I’m not exactly sticking up for Apple as much as I’m trying to demonstrate practical thresholds that would realistically limit this behavior. I don’t think Apple wants 100,000 upset customers let alone millions. Hardware requirements for software is a decades old concept, and it’s true they deprecate and obsolete supported software and hardware on for older platforms, but it’s rare I’ve seen Apple taken a user hostile approach here within supported lifetimes though it has happened yes it is rare. Their developer experience on the other hand does not see the same care and attention a lot (most even) of the time. That’s because, and I believe this strongly, Apple never wants 3rd party software to have platform influential power over them again, like Microsoft and Adobe did for decades. It’s sad but not unsurprising that their platforms can be very developer antagonistic if you don’t take their happy path (and sometimes even then). To them though, it doesn’t matter until it affects a large quadrant of the Apple consumer base and in some occasions yes not even then, but largely it’s the consumer who has the biggest voting block with Apple in terms of pressure on the platform, as I’ve watched it play it they never had a history particularly after the iPhone came out of having the best developer relations relative to say, Microsoft, who provides a very positive experience in comparison It’s just not in their DNA because of the fear of having too powerful of vendors putting pressure on the platform that they otherwise control outright. When you look at their policies in this context they make a heck of a lot more sense (even if you don’t agree. I certainly do not always)
buboard 6y ago
everyone can create a second email address for precisely this purpose and it will be much more anonymous than anything apple promotes
- jackson1442 6y ago
  Congratulations, now all of your email goes to a single different email address; your tracking profile is now associated with randomstring@email instead of john.doe@email. If you wanted something truly private you could create an account at a provider like Fastmail or ProtonMail and create an alias for each account (or just wildcard a custom domain until you need to send from an address). I doubt any tracking system is based on the domain in your email address... not yet, at least.

nicky0 6y ago

Except that in many cases the email address is an obfuscated one controlled by apple, so Apple really is a gatekeeper between the user and the service.

ianmobbs 6y ago
No more so than Gmail/Yahoo Mail/etc is for the average end user
- VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
  Yes and it applies to them too

muro 6y ago

Transferred to Apple more than the user.

enos_feedler 6y ago
Apple operates on behalf of the user. Apple saw users with throwaway/burner email addresses and said why not make this easier for everyone?
- hu3 6y ago
  Apple operates on behalf of profit. As it should.
- muro 6y ago
  As long as they don't try to switch

blendergeek 6y ago

> "Apple reserves the right to disable Sign in with Apple on a website or app for any reason at any time." I think GP is absolutely right here. Apple can take the customers at any time for any reason. Apple could ban you from using Sign in with Apple simply because Tim Cook doesn't like what food you eat for breakfast. So, I have to agree with GP that these are Apple's customers at this point.

no_wizard 6y ago
The check on this is that you are now putting an inconvenience on that apps users. Maybe it’s okay in some isolated circumstance however, I imagine this won’t sit well if it becomes a reoccurring theme for iOS users, as they will come to view Sign In With Apple as unstable/unsafe (like Google and it’s graveyard). It would quickly render Sign In With Apple useless if the trust that it will continue to work whenever used is not there I actually think this wouldn’t really happen in practice as consumers are quick to respond negatively to this behavior, so I’d be shocked if Apple actually did this without some darn good reason (I imagine it will also include removing said app)
- wvenable 6y ago
  > The check on this is that you are now putting an inconvenience on that apps users. That hasn't stopped Apple from remove apps or preventing updates -- clearly inconveniences on users -- for whatever reasons they want. It has happened and it will happen again. There is no check on this unless your app's audience is Netflix/Spotify/Facebook huge. If you're just an average developer you can be killed off at any time.
  - no_wizard 6y ago
    I’m not exactly sticking up for Apple as much as I’m trying to demonstrate practical thresholds that would realistically limit this behavior. I don’t think Apple wants 100,000 upset customers let alone millions. Hardware requirements for software is a decades old concept, and it’s true they deprecate and obsolete supported software and hardware on for older platforms, but it’s rare I’ve seen Apple taken a user hostile approach here within supported lifetimes though it has happened yes it is rare. Their developer experience on the other hand does not see the same care and attention a lot (most even) of the time. That’s because, and I believe this strongly, Apple never wants 3rd party software to have platform influential power over them again, like Microsoft and Adobe did for decades. It’s sad but not unsurprising that their platforms can be very developer antagonistic if you don’t take their happy path (and sometimes even then). To them though, it doesn’t matter until it affects a large quadrant of the Apple consumer base and in some occasions yes not even then, but largely it’s the consumer who has the biggest voting block with Apple in terms of pressure on the platform, as I’ve watched it play it they never had a history particularly after the iPhone came out of having the best developer relations relative to say, Microsoft, who provides a very positive experience in comparison It’s just not in their DNA because of the fear of having too powerful of vendors putting pressure on the platform that they otherwise control outright. When you look at their policies in this context they make a heck of a lot more sense (even if you don’t agree. I certainly do not always)

buboard 6y ago

everyone can create a second email address for precisely this purpose and it will be much more anonymous than anything apple promotes

jackson1442 6y ago
Congratulations, now all of your email goes to a single different email address; your tracking profile is now associated with randomstring@email instead of john.doe@email. If you wanted something truly private you could create an account at a provider like Fastmail or ProtonMail and create an alias for each account (or just wildcard a custom domain until you need to send from an address). I doubt any tracking system is based on the domain in your email address... not yet, at least.