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If you implement Sign In With Apple, you don't have a relationship with your customers anymore. They're Apple's customers, and Apple can take them away at any t

If you implement Sign In With Apple, you don't have a relationship with your customers anymore. They're Apple's customers, and Apple can take them away at any time.

djrogers 6y ago
How is that different from FB/Google's login services? The only apps that are required to support Sign in with Apple are those that also support FB/G/etc sign in, so those companies have already chosen a path...
- nicky0 6y ago
  It's not, which is why they are also removing FB login.
- stickfigure 6y ago
  Google provides an email address. You could replace your Google auth with password auth in an afternoon just by adding a "forgot your password" link. Facebook auth used to provide an email address, but it's been almost a decade since I last used their APIs so I don't know if that has changed. Apple's "provide an anonymous email address" inserts them between you and your customer.
  - jmisavage 6y ago
    When you use Apple's Sign In it flat out asks whether you want to use your real email or an anonymous one. The user is purposely says, "Hey, Apple get in the middle I don't trust these clowns."
    - jakear 6y ago
      HN... where people go to complain about both companies requiring access your email, and companies requiring you to be able to block other companies from access to your email. I don’t get it.
    - kergonath 6y ago
      Exactly! Which is as it should be. Way too many websites take for granted that they can do anything with the email addresses provided, including sending spam by default or with no way of opting out. With Sign In with Apple, if they don’t get in my email, that’s because I don’t want them to have it. Then, their poor marketing practices are irrelevant, which actually makes me more likely to create an account on their website.
    - aayush-jain 6y ago
      Many apps also don't want to have the hassle of securely managing user login details.
  - sixstringtheory 6y ago
    Not sure about Google auth, but I created a Spotify account with their FB login years ago. About 1.5 years ago I wanted to decouple them, but they have no way to do it. I had to create an entirely new account. Not sure if it's a technical limitation or just a case of Spotify not prioritizing it, but their support tech did relate to me that they had lots of those switches occurring at the time.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - jbarches 6y ago
    Facebook does not guarantee an email address, either. (Just went through this process with Apple/Google/Facebook/Email auth - even using Firebase Auth library - surprising how many edge cases there were).
danudey 6y ago
It's good that you read Hey's blog post and are repeating it here, but it's not very accurate in this case. Specifically, if you implement Sign In with Apple, then they are still your customers as much as ever, they just might choose to hide their information from you because they don't trust you, which means that the power in the relationship is transferred to the user instead of the app developer.
- nicky0 6y ago
  Except that in many cases the email address is an obfuscated one controlled by apple, so Apple really is a gatekeeper between the user and the service.
  - ianmobbs 6y ago
    No more so than Gmail/Yahoo Mail/etc is for the average end user
    - VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
      Yes and it applies to them too
- muro 6y ago
  Transferred to Apple more than the user.
  - enos_feedler 6y ago
    Apple operates on behalf of the user. Apple saw users with throwaway/burner email addresses and said why not make this easier for everyone?
    - hu3 6y ago
      Apple operates on behalf of profit. As it should.
    - 6y ago
elicash 6y ago
Not every app maker WANTS to store this user data. Some makers just want things to work and to keep the process as simple as possible for the user.
scarface74 6y ago
I don’t want to have a relationship with every app developer. If you want a relationship with your customers that you control, you are free not to implement any third party sign on and implement your own.

If you implement Sign In With Apple, you don't have a relationship with your customers anymore. They're Apple's customers, and Apple can take them away at any time.

djrogers 6y ago

How is that different from FB/Google's login services? The only apps that are required to support Sign in with Apple are those that also support FB/G/etc sign in, so those companies have already chosen a path...

nicky0 6y ago
It's not, which is why they are also removing FB login.
stickfigure 6y ago
Google provides an email address. You could replace your Google auth with password auth in an afternoon just by adding a "forgot your password" link. Facebook auth used to provide an email address, but it's been almost a decade since I last used their APIs so I don't know if that has changed. Apple's "provide an anonymous email address" inserts them between you and your customer.
- jmisavage 6y ago
  When you use Apple's Sign In it flat out asks whether you want to use your real email or an anonymous one. The user is purposely says, "Hey, Apple get in the middle I don't trust these clowns."
  - jakear 6y ago
    HN... where people go to complain about both companies requiring access your email, and companies requiring you to be able to block other companies from access to your email. I don’t get it.
  - kergonath 6y ago
    Exactly! Which is as it should be. Way too many websites take for granted that they can do anything with the email addresses provided, including sending spam by default or with no way of opting out. With Sign In with Apple, if they don’t get in my email, that’s because I don’t want them to have it. Then, their poor marketing practices are irrelevant, which actually makes me more likely to create an account on their website.
  - aayush-jain 6y ago
    Many apps also don't want to have the hassle of securely managing user login details.
- sixstringtheory 6y ago
  Not sure about Google auth, but I created a Spotify account with their FB login years ago. About 1.5 years ago I wanted to decouple them, but they have no way to do it. I had to create an entirely new account. Not sure if it's a technical limitation or just a case of Spotify not prioritizing it, but their support tech did relate to me that they had lots of those switches occurring at the time.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- jbarches 6y ago
  Facebook does not guarantee an email address, either. (Just went through this process with Apple/Google/Facebook/Email auth - even using Firebase Auth library - surprising how many edge cases there were).

danudey 6y ago

It's good that you read Hey's blog post and are repeating it here, but it's not very accurate in this case. Specifically, if you implement Sign In with Apple, then they are still your customers as much as ever, they just might choose to hide their information from you because they don't trust you, which means that the power in the relationship is transferred to the user instead of the app developer.

nicky0 6y ago
Except that in many cases the email address is an obfuscated one controlled by apple, so Apple really is a gatekeeper between the user and the service.
- ianmobbs 6y ago
  No more so than Gmail/Yahoo Mail/etc is for the average end user
  - VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
    Yes and it applies to them too
muro 6y ago
Transferred to Apple more than the user.
- enos_feedler 6y ago
  Apple operates on behalf of the user. Apple saw users with throwaway/burner email addresses and said why not make this easier for everyone?
  - hu3 6y ago
    Apple operates on behalf of profit. As it should.
  - 6y ago

elicash 6y ago

Not every app maker WANTS to store this user data. Some makers just want things to work and to keep the process as simple as possible for the user.

scarface74 6y ago

I don’t want to have a relationship with every app developer. If you want a relationship with your customers that you control, you are free not to implement any third party sign on and implement your own.