5 ms·

Is it though? At least you can see different sides, different voices.

by mda 6y ago

pphysch 6y ago
And that is usually enough to placate Westerners. Even if, say, the "different sides" are just different heads of the same snake, which is often the case. The only two political parties in the US, for instance, differ remarkably little in terms of foreign policy and labor rights. Headlines in major US media will virtually never indicate there is any significant room for debate here. The public is satisfied with the false dichotomy of "raise military budget by $100B" vs. "raise military budget by $200B".
- kortilla 6y ago
  Yet youtube is filled with Marxist and socialist material. Major news networks talked about UBI during the Democrat primaries. We’re talking about what information is available in the US, not which policies have a chance in the current popular opinion.
  - pphysch 6y ago
    > Yet youtube is filled with Marxist and socialist material. YouTube is filled with virtually everything imaginable. Do you have the numbers and relevant comparisons to back this claim?
    - kortilla 6y ago
      > YouTube is filled with virtually everything imaginable. That’s the point FFS. I responded to the notion that google only allows fake disagreement by showing two ends of the same snake.
- secabeen 6y ago
  > The only two political parties in the US, for instance, differ remarkably little in terms of foreign policy and labor rights. Before Trump, I would probably have agreed with you, but these days, I don't know how you can say that. Trump has made major breaks with the foreign policy establishment over the past 3 years, and continues to do so (pulling half of our troops out of Germany is a good example of this). On labor rights, the two parties have been far apart for years. The GOP has intentionally and willfully attacked and degraded the National Labor Relations Board, allowing it to lose quorum and be sidelined. If you broaden the policy proposals to health care, the parties are even further apart, with one party advocating for single-payer state funded health care, and the other advocating for the immediate elimination of subsidized health care for over 10 million people. There may have be some issues where there is a general consensus between the parties, but there are plenty of very important issues where the parties are far, far apart.
  - pphysch 6y ago
    Both parties broadly promote global US military and economic supremacy (unipolarity), draconic IP laws, corporate tax benefits, social division on immutable identity issues, anticommunism, etc. There is wiggle room (i.e. Overton window), as you point out, but the main thrust is clear and opposition is not tolerated in an institutional sense. At best, the establishment Dems have been passive observers to the catastrophic erosion of social systems over the past 50 years.
    - secabeen 6y ago
      Yeah, the parties are going to have things they agree on. The question is how much is that agreement out of line with what the citizenry want, or at least, what they think they want until the consequences of wanting that is rammed home by reality. > Both parties broadly promote global US military and economic supremacy (unipolarity) They seem to be doing a pretty bad job of preventing the rise of China as a second pole.
      - pphysch 6y ago
        I never said they were good at it. It doesn't mean that advocating for multipolarity isn't a political dead end in the US. Both parties are against it.
    - pmontra 6y ago
      > Both parties broadly promote global US military and economic supremacy (unipolarity), Maybe that's the goal but the execution is lacking. Seen from outside the USA it seems that the influence and the prestige of the United States are lower now than at any time in my life. The apex was any year in the 90s. Obama started the trend. Trump accelerated it. Dealing with allies as if they were enemies doesn't help to keep a supremacy. Everybody needs friends, even big countries.
mrfusion 6y ago
All the voices are within the Overton window though.
thereare5lights 6y ago
We're that much better at it that the masses think there are different sides. At the top, it's all the same.
concordDance 6y ago
Different voices from the same narrow Overton Window. Lets say it's December 2015 and I want to find out what ISIS has to say about it's activities. It was nigh impossible to find unfiltered information from them.

Is it though? At least you can see different sides, different voices.

by mda 6y ago

Is it though? At least you can see different sides, different voices.

And that is usually enough to placate Westerners. Even if, say, the "different sides" are just different heads of the same snake, which is often the case. The only two political parties in the US, for instance, differ remarkably little in terms of foreign policy and labor rights. Headlines in major US media will virtually never indicate there is any significant room for debate here. The public is satisfied with the false dichotomy of "raise military budget by $100B" vs. "raise military budget by $200B".

kortilla 6y ago
Yet youtube is filled with Marxist and socialist material. Major news networks talked about UBI during the Democrat primaries. We’re talking about what information is available in the US, not which policies have a chance in the current popular opinion.
- pphysch 6y ago
  > Yet youtube is filled with Marxist and socialist material. YouTube is filled with virtually everything imaginable. Do you have the numbers and relevant comparisons to back this claim?
  - kortilla 6y ago
    > YouTube is filled with virtually everything imaginable. That’s the point FFS. I responded to the notion that google only allows fake disagreement by showing two ends of the same snake.
secabeen 6y ago
> The only two political parties in the US, for instance, differ remarkably little in terms of foreign policy and labor rights. Before Trump, I would probably have agreed with you, but these days, I don't know how you can say that. Trump has made major breaks with the foreign policy establishment over the past 3 years, and continues to do so (pulling half of our troops out of Germany is a good example of this). On labor rights, the two parties have been far apart for years. The GOP has intentionally and willfully attacked and degraded the National Labor Relations Board, allowing it to lose quorum and be sidelined. If you broaden the policy proposals to health care, the parties are even further apart, with one party advocating for single-payer state funded health care, and the other advocating for the immediate elimination of subsidized health care for over 10 million people. There may have be some issues where there is a general consensus between the parties, but there are plenty of very important issues where the parties are far, far apart.
- pphysch 6y ago
  Both parties broadly promote global US military and economic supremacy (unipolarity), draconic IP laws, corporate tax benefits, social division on immutable identity issues, anticommunism, etc. There is wiggle room (i.e. Overton window), as you point out, but the main thrust is clear and opposition is not tolerated in an institutional sense. At best, the establishment Dems have been passive observers to the catastrophic erosion of social systems over the past 50 years.
  - secabeen 6y ago
    Yeah, the parties are going to have things they agree on. The question is how much is that agreement out of line with what the citizenry want, or at least, what they think they want until the consequences of wanting that is rammed home by reality. > Both parties broadly promote global US military and economic supremacy (unipolarity) They seem to be doing a pretty bad job of preventing the rise of China as a second pole.
    - pphysch 6y ago
      I never said they were good at it. It doesn't mean that advocating for multipolarity isn't a political dead end in the US. Both parties are against it.
  - pmontra 6y ago
    > Both parties broadly promote global US military and economic supremacy (unipolarity), Maybe that's the goal but the execution is lacking. Seen from outside the USA it seems that the influence and the prestige of the United States are lower now than at any time in my life. The apex was any year in the 90s. Obama started the trend. Trump accelerated it. Dealing with allies as if they were enemies doesn't help to keep a supremacy. Everybody needs friends, even big countries.

mrfusion 6y ago

All the voices are within the Overton window though.

thereare5lights 6y ago

We're that much better at it that the masses think there are different sides. At the top, it's all the same.

concordDance 6y ago

Different voices from the same narrow Overton Window. Lets say it's December 2015 and I want to find out what ISIS has to say about it's activities. It was nigh impossible to find unfiltered information from them.