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Not at all but Molyneux disagrees with so many left-of-center ideas that the effort needed to effectively detail how Molyneux is different is great, so he gets

Not at all but Molyneux disagrees with so many left-of-center ideas that the effort needed to effectively detail how Molyneux is different is great, so he gets lumped in with them.

opnitro 6y ago
"The primary purpose of feminism is to lower white birthrates." - https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1181003746983043074 https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/118100374698304307... "If we had been allowed to talk about race and IQ, the invasion of Iraq would never have occurred, because no one would have been under the illusion that a Jeffersonian Republic was going to emerge from a population with an IQ in the 80s. Opposing science got >500k people killed." - https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1082489068741513217 https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/108248906874151321... EDIT: added a second quote
- neonate 6y ago
  Ugh. Those are awful.
  - opnitro 6y ago
    Yup, he's bad folks
- pingpongchef 6y ago
  Your argument is incomplete. I don't dispute that he said those things but what do you claim is the similarity to Spencer or Duke?
  - opnitro 6y ago
    Yeah, they're both very racist, to the level of supposing that that white society is inherently superior. The first quote implies a the existence of a conspiracy to lower white birthrates. The second states clearly that Iraqi people would not be capable of forming a just society due to "low IQ". These are definitionally white supremacist talking points. EDIT: spelling
    - nailer 6y ago
      Are they true or false though? > The second states clearly that Iraqi people would not be capable of forming a just society due to "low IQ" Most people who've investigated IQ between different populations find east asians to have the highest IQs, which would contravene the concept of white supremacy entirely. Maybe the science is bad - there's certainly some historical basis to that. On the other hands it seems strange that differences between populations somehow don't extend to the brain. But if it's true, then that reality is not good nor bad. It just /is/.
      - opnitro 6y ago
        A) going to disagree pretty hard there being a conspiracy to reduce white birthrates B) Pretty sure the Iraqi people could figure out how to run a just government. I think the history of Iraq being a colonial holding by much more powerful governments for a while has more to do with it. So yea, both claims are false. EDIT: Getting some downvotes and not a single reply providing an argument for either claim.
        nailer 6y ago
        You disagreeing with an idea does not mean is is false, likewise you agreeing would not make it true. Edit / reply to opnitro due to rate limit: I am arguing that the truth of an idea is unrelated to whether it causes offence. That should hopefully be very clear when reading the posts you're replying to.
        opnitro 6y ago
        You implied they were true (or at least questioned it). I gave my arguments as to why I think they are both false, A) being a lack of evidence, B) imperialism as a more believable explanation with more evidence. Ball is in your court
        lliamander 6y ago
        I agree that both of Stefan's claims are more likely to be false. But as factual claims I think they are better dealt with by arguing against them rather than simply banning. Of course, one can make a factual claim in bad faith in order to stoke controversy. It would be nice to limit this, but it happens so often and I don't see a principled way to prohibit them as a class. On the other hand, I don't see how someone doesn't get banned for saying things like "Oh man it's kind of sick how much joy I get out of being cruel to old white men." or "#CancelWhitePeople"[1]. If we're going to ban people, those who say things like that against any demographic would be my first choice. [1]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45052534 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45052534
  - bjoli 6y ago
    I am not here to do any defending of anyone, but as some people are able to defend themselves as (often rightfully) with "it was taken out of context". Yet every time I have heard anything with molyneux it has seemed to me exactly the opposite. Very few things taken out of context seem very bad. As a whole, on the other hand, I always got the impression he is bat-shit insane. Does he mention white genocide? I doubt it. Does he paint a picture of the world where white genocide is reality ? Well, I would say yes.
    - opnitro 6y ago
      I appreciate your point, but both of those tweets are bad even without context :)
      - bjoli 6y ago
        Yup. I am firmly in the camp believing that he is a hatemonger. I haven't seen the "white genocide is partly feminism's fault" before, but that pretty much sums up most of what I have heard him say outside of his fanaticism about IQ.

Not at all but Molyneux disagrees with so many left-of-center ideas that the effort needed to effectively detail how Molyneux is different is great, so he gets lumped in with them.

opnitro 6y ago

"The primary purpose of feminism is to lower white birthrates." - https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1181003746983043074 https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/118100374698304307... "If we had been allowed to talk about race and IQ, the invasion of Iraq would never have occurred, because no one would have been under the illusion that a Jeffersonian Republic was going to emerge from a population with an IQ in the 80s. Opposing science got >500k people killed." - https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1082489068741513217 https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/108248906874151321... EDIT: added a second quote

neonate 6y ago
Ugh. Those are awful.
- opnitro 6y ago
  Yup, he's bad folks
pingpongchef 6y ago
Your argument is incomplete. I don't dispute that he said those things but what do you claim is the similarity to Spencer or Duke?
- opnitro 6y ago
  Yeah, they're both very racist, to the level of supposing that that white society is inherently superior. The first quote implies a the existence of a conspiracy to lower white birthrates. The second states clearly that Iraqi people would not be capable of forming a just society due to "low IQ". These are definitionally white supremacist talking points. EDIT: spelling
  - nailer 6y ago
    Are they true or false though? > The second states clearly that Iraqi people would not be capable of forming a just society due to "low IQ" Most people who've investigated IQ between different populations find east asians to have the highest IQs, which would contravene the concept of white supremacy entirely. Maybe the science is bad - there's certainly some historical basis to that. On the other hands it seems strange that differences between populations somehow don't extend to the brain. But if it's true, then that reality is not good nor bad. It just /is/.
    - opnitro 6y ago
      A) going to disagree pretty hard there being a conspiracy to reduce white birthrates B) Pretty sure the Iraqi people could figure out how to run a just government. I think the history of Iraq being a colonial holding by much more powerful governments for a while has more to do with it. So yea, both claims are false. EDIT: Getting some downvotes and not a single reply providing an argument for either claim.
      - nailer 6y ago
        You disagreeing with an idea does not mean is is false, likewise you agreeing would not make it true. Edit / reply to opnitro due to rate limit: I am arguing that the truth of an idea is unrelated to whether it causes offence. That should hopefully be very clear when reading the posts you're replying to.
        opnitro 6y ago
        You implied they were true (or at least questioned it). I gave my arguments as to why I think they are both false, A) being a lack of evidence, B) imperialism as a more believable explanation with more evidence. Ball is in your court
        lliamander 6y ago
        I agree that both of Stefan's claims are more likely to be false. But as factual claims I think they are better dealt with by arguing against them rather than simply banning. Of course, one can make a factual claim in bad faith in order to stoke controversy. It would be nice to limit this, but it happens so often and I don't see a principled way to prohibit them as a class. On the other hand, I don't see how someone doesn't get banned for saying things like "Oh man it's kind of sick how much joy I get out of being cruel to old white men." or "#CancelWhitePeople"[1]. If we're going to ban people, those who say things like that against any demographic would be my first choice. [1]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45052534 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45052534
- bjoli 6y ago
  I am not here to do any defending of anyone, but as some people are able to defend themselves as (often rightfully) with "it was taken out of context". Yet every time I have heard anything with molyneux it has seemed to me exactly the opposite. Very few things taken out of context seem very bad. As a whole, on the other hand, I always got the impression he is bat-shit insane. Does he mention white genocide? I doubt it. Does he paint a picture of the world where white genocide is reality ? Well, I would say yes.
  - opnitro 6y ago
    I appreciate your point, but both of those tweets are bad even without context :)
    - bjoli 6y ago
      Yup. I am firmly in the camp believing that he is a hatemonger. I haven't seen the "white genocide is partly feminism's fault" before, but that pretty much sums up most of what I have heard him say outside of his fanaticism about IQ.