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I know plenty of contractors who improve their own homes in their spare time, artists who paint in their spare time, writers with side projects, teachers who do

I know plenty of contractors who improve their own homes in their spare time, artists who paint in their spare time, writers with side projects, teachers who do planning/look for lessons, etc. etc. That said, I think we'd all be better off if engineers demanded collectively not to work more than 40 hours. (Tech unions/guilds could be formed and focused just on stuff like limiting hours/paying for overtime and oncall, btw.) I've done it individually, and it has never slowed my career progression -- even when I worked at Amazon, I was adamant that my family and personal time came first, but I still was promoted regularly. I still code in my spare time, but it's totally unrelated to work.

smabie 6y ago
In general, the less hours everyone works, the greater the advantage you have in working more. By just working 10 extra hours, I can be 25% more productive (there's a lot of simplying assumptions there, of course). This is why the 4 day work week never took off: I can just work one more day and realize a 25% boost in output, a major boon to my career. Developers don't have much in common with the workers who originally created unions. Some of the differences are that work can be done at home, the potential for advancement and greater salaries is very high, and that the non-physical nature of the work allows you to work very long hours. All of these factors conspire to undermine any 40 hour max set by a developer union. As average hours worked go up, the benefit of each extra hour goes down. I'm not sure where exactly the equilibrium is, but personally, I find that over the long term, over 60 hours per week leaves me feeling a little shitty and depressed, especially if I have a commute. I think most over can boost up to 80 and be fine for a couple months though. If there's one profession where people are expected to work more than devs it's finance. New analysts in finance are pulling 100-120 For at least their first. I've done those kind of hours for maybe one week, but it kills you, both physically and mentally.
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  > I find that over the long term, over 60 hours per week leaves me feeling a little shitty and depressed We must have different bodies. 40 hours a week is plenty to do that for me (and I don't really work nearly enough 40 hours during the supposed 9-5). At the end of a typical workday (mostly coding), I experience quite thorough mental depletion. It is very unpleasant and makes the remaining hours of the day mostly a pointless and sucky experience, as I don't have the will to do anything (although sometimes I do recover after an evening of 3-4 hours of doing nothing and get a little energy back - however it's bedtime then).
- screye 6y ago
  > most over can boost up to 80 and be fine for a couple months though Staying alone and being a well put together human with relationships becomes completely impossible the second I go past 55-ish hours. > people are expected to work more than devs it's finance Finance is toxic at a whole another level. The rampant smoking, cocaine use, work hard/play hard etc. is in some sense mirrored in similarly intensive silicon valley startups where aderall abuse is just as rampant. I am also not sure if the finance analytics work is as creatively taxing as coding (at least the design stage), which can be a major distinction. Either ways, I hope CS never becomes like finance, ever.

smabie 6y ago

In general, the less hours everyone works, the greater the advantage you have in working more. By just working 10 extra hours, I can be 25% more productive (there's a lot of simplying assumptions there, of course). This is why the 4 day work week never took off: I can just work one more day and realize a 25% boost in output, a major boon to my career. Developers don't have much in common with the workers who originally created unions. Some of the differences are that work can be done at home, the potential for advancement and greater salaries is very high, and that the non-physical nature of the work allows you to work very long hours. All of these factors conspire to undermine any 40 hour max set by a developer union. As average hours worked go up, the benefit of each extra hour goes down. I'm not sure where exactly the equilibrium is, but personally, I find that over the long term, over 60 hours per week leaves me feeling a little shitty and depressed, especially if I have a commute. I think most over can boost up to 80 and be fine for a couple months though. If there's one profession where people are expected to work more than devs it's finance. New analysts in finance are pulling 100-120 For at least their first. I've done those kind of hours for maybe one week, but it kills you, both physically and mentally.

burntoutfire 6y ago
> I find that over the long term, over 60 hours per week leaves me feeling a little shitty and depressed We must have different bodies. 40 hours a week is plenty to do that for me (and I don't really work nearly enough 40 hours during the supposed 9-5). At the end of a typical workday (mostly coding), I experience quite thorough mental depletion. It is very unpleasant and makes the remaining hours of the day mostly a pointless and sucky experience, as I don't have the will to do anything (although sometimes I do recover after an evening of 3-4 hours of doing nothing and get a little energy back - however it's bedtime then).
screye 6y ago
> most over can boost up to 80 and be fine for a couple months though Staying alone and being a well put together human with relationships becomes completely impossible the second I go past 55-ish hours. > people are expected to work more than devs it's finance Finance is toxic at a whole another level. The rampant smoking, cocaine use, work hard/play hard etc. is in some sense mirrored in similarly intensive silicon valley startups where aderall abuse is just as rampant. I am also not sure if the finance analytics work is as creatively taxing as coding (at least the design stage), which can be a major distinction. Either ways, I hope CS never becomes like finance, ever.