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> Why is that interesting and at what point do you notice that every move these companies make, is anti-human? Hyperbole if I've ever read it. "every move"? Is

> Why is that interesting and at what point do you notice that every move these companies make, is anti-human? Hyperbole if I've ever read it. "every move"? Is investing in clean energy to power all of their data centers anti-human as Apple has done? Is creating a $100,000,000 education fund for under-represented app developers anti-human? Is encrypting devices by default to protect privacy anti-human? Now, as you can see I'm a bit of an Apple apologist and of course all of these are good PR moves. But every corporation is by definition just a "group of humans working together for profit." They will do good things for profit and they will do bad things for profit. But a group of humans working together for profit does not make every move they do "anti-human."

deleted 6y ago
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bonestormii_ 6y ago
There are certainly shades of gray, but if I can speak on behalf of the post you are responding to, it seems their argument would be that it is a net negative, and that the "Good PR humanity" is relatively shallow in the end. Consider a $100,000,000 education fund for app developers. Certainly, app development can be a gateway for some people, but once they develop apps, where do they go if not a market place that Apple tightly controls? They are a machine funding the creation of new cogs in this scenario. If your overlords buy you an opulent dinner and provide you with a warm bed, it doesn't mean you are free. Freedom can be a vague and high-minded ideal that obviously needs to be balanced with communal concerns, but I agree with the parent poster's overall disgust. It feels that a company like Apple is so big that they are beyond any societal control or regulation, and that is unacceptable. To hear their minions rush to their defense as if their interests are somehow aligned (they're not) is too much to handle sometimes. It's tiring.
- WoodenChair 6y ago
  You are free from entities that don't have coercive control over you. If there were no alternatives to the Apple ecosystem to get your work/social life/business done, then you would be correct, we are not free. However, iOS has <20% global marketshare[0]. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that the App Store needs reform. Perhaps there should be some regulation, that's above my pay grade. Your level of disgust also to me feels like hyperbole. 0: https://www.statista.com/statistics/236031/market-share-of-ios-in-global-smartphone-os-shipments/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/236031/market-share-of-i...
  - bonestormii_ 6y ago
    Oh yes, the fabled <20% marketshare. So where should I go from Apple if not into the waiting arms of Google/Android? Is that better? This isn't actually a conversation specifically about Apple if you recall. It is a conversation about all such companies. And yes, your defense of Apple is a little cringe-y. Why do you need to defend such a behemoth in a conversation that is decidedly not dedicated to them? Per the parent comment--Why does HN obsess over the actions of these companies that are categorically not for anyone's benefit other than their own? That was the original question. I honestly am asking you to reflect on it. Why do you care? What's it to you?
    - askafriend 6y ago
      > I honestly am asking you to reflect on it. Why do you care? What's it to you? What a phenomenal way to shut down conversation. "Why do you care?" is such a spineless response. It could be used in any conversation regarding any topic for an easy out. Either engage with the conversation or don't.
      - bonestormii_ 6y ago
        I'm not trying to shut down the conversation. In this case it is the conversation. "Why do we defend and obsess over 3rd party business interests of corporate giants?" is the topic we are discussing. Keep up.
    - WoodenChair 6y ago
      > I honestly am asking you to reflect on it. Why do you care? What's it to you? I care because I think there is a lot of misdirected energy and anger. In a world with racial injustice, starvation, poverty, etc. you choose this topic to be outraged about? Well you have a right to your outrage. It’s good some people are outraged because it keeps them on their toes. But at the same time I have a right to say I think your dialogue and vitriol is out-of-line with the reality of the situation, and hyperbolic at best. I am a counter-balance to your outrage and that’s why I care.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

bonestormii_ 6y ago

There are certainly shades of gray, but if I can speak on behalf of the post you are responding to, it seems their argument would be that it is a net negative, and that the "Good PR humanity" is relatively shallow in the end. Consider a $100,000,000 education fund for app developers. Certainly, app development can be a gateway for some people, but once they develop apps, where do they go if not a market place that Apple tightly controls? They are a machine funding the creation of new cogs in this scenario. If your overlords buy you an opulent dinner and provide you with a warm bed, it doesn't mean you are free. Freedom can be a vague and high-minded ideal that obviously needs to be balanced with communal concerns, but I agree with the parent poster's overall disgust. It feels that a company like Apple is so big that they are beyond any societal control or regulation, and that is unacceptable. To hear their minions rush to their defense as if their interests are somehow aligned (they're not) is too much to handle sometimes. It's tiring.

WoodenChair 6y ago
You are free from entities that don't have coercive control over you. If there were no alternatives to the Apple ecosystem to get your work/social life/business done, then you would be correct, we are not free. However, iOS has <20% global marketshare[0]. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that the App Store needs reform. Perhaps there should be some regulation, that's above my pay grade. Your level of disgust also to me feels like hyperbole. 0: https://www.statista.com/statistics/236031/market-share-of-ios-in-global-smartphone-os-shipments/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/236031/market-share-of-i...
- bonestormii_ 6y ago
  Oh yes, the fabled <20% marketshare. So where should I go from Apple if not into the waiting arms of Google/Android? Is that better? This isn't actually a conversation specifically about Apple if you recall. It is a conversation about all such companies. And yes, your defense of Apple is a little cringe-y. Why do you need to defend such a behemoth in a conversation that is decidedly not dedicated to them? Per the parent comment--Why does HN obsess over the actions of these companies that are categorically not for anyone's benefit other than their own? That was the original question. I honestly am asking you to reflect on it. Why do you care? What's it to you?
  - askafriend 6y ago
    > I honestly am asking you to reflect on it. Why do you care? What's it to you? What a phenomenal way to shut down conversation. "Why do you care?" is such a spineless response. It could be used in any conversation regarding any topic for an easy out. Either engage with the conversation or don't.
    - bonestormii_ 6y ago
      I'm not trying to shut down the conversation. In this case it is the conversation. "Why do we defend and obsess over 3rd party business interests of corporate giants?" is the topic we are discussing. Keep up.
  - WoodenChair 6y ago
    > I honestly am asking you to reflect on it. Why do you care? What's it to you? I care because I think there is a lot of misdirected energy and anger. In a world with racial injustice, starvation, poverty, etc. you choose this topic to be outraged about? Well you have a right to your outrage. It’s good some people are outraged because it keeps them on their toes. But at the same time I have a right to say I think your dialogue and vitriol is out-of-line with the reality of the situation, and hyperbolic at best. I am a counter-balance to your outrage and that’s why I care.