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This is not supported by polling data. See for example: https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/11/15/americans-and-privacy-concerned-confused-and-feeling-la

This is not supported by polling data. See for example: https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/11/15/americans-and-privacy-concerned-confused-and-feeling-lack-of-control-over-their-personal-information/ https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2019/11/15/americans-an... "Some 81% of the public say that the potential risks they face because of data collection by companies outweigh the benefits, and 66% say the same about government data collection."

Icathian 6y ago
Asking people whether they care and making them prove it by subjecting themselves to the slightest inconvenience may result in different conclusions.
- pier25 6y ago
  Exactly. I only know two persons in real life (other than me) that care about data privacy and act on that. Of course if you ask most people they will say that yeah they care about privacy, but their actions tell a different story.
  - kohtatsu 6y ago
    Most people simply haven't learned the hygiene yet. It can be as simple as showing them to open incognito for specific searches or topics, or to install a trusted tracker blocking extension like ublock origin and set it up for them. Managing app location privileges is a big one too, iOS is really good about nagging for background location permissions and I appreciate that a lot, but a lot of people don't realize if you give Facebook or another app "while using", you can bet money it will use it whenever you open the app. https://business.financialpost.com/technology/tim-hortons-app-tracking-customers-intimate-data https://business.financialpost.com/technology/tim-hortons-ap... The Tim Hortons app logged this guy's location 2,700 times in 5 months. He didn't find out until the iOS 13 background location warning. https://cdn.iphoneincanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ios-13-location-data-apps.jpeg https://cdn.iphoneincanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ios... People care, most of them just aren't as literate as the typical HN user so they either don't have a clue what's really happening, or simply throw their hands up in the air.
    - sidibe 6y ago
      Ignorance was a stronger argument a few years ago, I think now it's just an optimistic take by privacy advocates. Vast majority of people today know Google/Facebook is Big Brother and that knowledge doesn't matter to them nearly as much as some hoped.
    - jldugger 6y ago
      > Most people simply haven't learned the hygiene yet. There's an entire class of problems you cannot solve through 'hygiene.' Equifax, for example, collected data on you without your consent, and got in trouble for unintentionally giving it away when they're supposed to be getting money in exchange.
    - oblio 6y ago
      > Most people simply haven't learned the hygiene yet. This whole pandemic kind of proves that we haven't learned the real-life hygiene, after decades and decades of that being drilled into us, and real-life hygiene having actual life-or-death consequences. Don't hold your breath about digital hygiene.
  - dagnabbit 6y ago
    I express my concern about data privacy in actions such as using iPhones instead of Android devices, and in not using Gmail. I am grateful that Apple takes privacy seriously because I would struggle to protect my privacy as well as they do, were they to leave the market.
- snowwrestler 6y ago
  But what if you could improve your privacy without any inconvenience at all? That's essentially Apple's marketing pitch on this subject, and this poll shows that there are a lot of people with whom it will resonate.
- zem 6y ago
  and the solution is not to say (or imply) that people have messed-up priorities, it is to figure out how to make the right thing as convenient as possible.
parthdesai 6y ago
How many of those 81% are willing to delete facebook, messenger and instagram though?
- simonh 6y ago
  Probably very few if that’s what their friends use, but that doesn’t mean they don’t resent it. A billion people might use Facebook, but 1.3 billion use iMessage. I think this is a significant risk for services that don’t respect user privacy.
  - parthdesai 6y ago
    I call bullshit on more people using iMessage than any of facebook related services. In this case, I feel like you've a very North American point of view. Majority people who have a smart phone has one of fb/whatsapp/instagram accounts, while iPhones don't even make up for the majority of market share when it comes to smartphone.
    - simonh 6y ago
      Huh, that's interesting. I'm a Brit with a Chinese wife and spend a lot of time over there as well, so I'd hardly call my views America centric. There are a dozen countries I've spent more time in than the USA. It is possible I have a geographic bias, Facebook is barely a thing in China.
      - parthdesai 6y ago
        But China is an exception. This link says Whatsapp has 1.5 billion active users! https://www.businessofapps.com/data/whatsapp-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/whatsapp-statistics/
- prewett 6y ago
  That's a bad metric. I find Facebook a privacy disaster (and user hostile and i am less happy when I use it). But am I willing to delete it? No, because if I meet someone I can friend them on FB later, and it's my only means of communication for some people. If a better communications network were available I would switch, but since there isn't, I can't.
arkades 6y ago
Expressed Preferences vs. Revealed Preferences >19% of the public uses google and/or facebook services.

Icathian 6y ago

Asking people whether they care and making them prove it by subjecting themselves to the slightest inconvenience may result in different conclusions.

pier25 6y ago
Exactly. I only know two persons in real life (other than me) that care about data privacy and act on that. Of course if you ask most people they will say that yeah they care about privacy, but their actions tell a different story.
- kohtatsu 6y ago
  Most people simply haven't learned the hygiene yet. It can be as simple as showing them to open incognito for specific searches or topics, or to install a trusted tracker blocking extension like ublock origin and set it up for them. Managing app location privileges is a big one too, iOS is really good about nagging for background location permissions and I appreciate that a lot, but a lot of people don't realize if you give Facebook or another app "while using", you can bet money it will use it whenever you open the app. https://business.financialpost.com/technology/tim-hortons-app-tracking-customers-intimate-data https://business.financialpost.com/technology/tim-hortons-ap... The Tim Hortons app logged this guy's location 2,700 times in 5 months. He didn't find out until the iOS 13 background location warning. https://cdn.iphoneincanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ios-13-location-data-apps.jpeg https://cdn.iphoneincanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ios... People care, most of them just aren't as literate as the typical HN user so they either don't have a clue what's really happening, or simply throw their hands up in the air.
  - sidibe 6y ago
    Ignorance was a stronger argument a few years ago, I think now it's just an optimistic take by privacy advocates. Vast majority of people today know Google/Facebook is Big Brother and that knowledge doesn't matter to them nearly as much as some hoped.
  - jldugger 6y ago
    > Most people simply haven't learned the hygiene yet. There's an entire class of problems you cannot solve through 'hygiene.' Equifax, for example, collected data on you without your consent, and got in trouble for unintentionally giving it away when they're supposed to be getting money in exchange.
  - oblio 6y ago
    > Most people simply haven't learned the hygiene yet. This whole pandemic kind of proves that we haven't learned the real-life hygiene, after decades and decades of that being drilled into us, and real-life hygiene having actual life-or-death consequences. Don't hold your breath about digital hygiene.
- dagnabbit 6y ago
  I express my concern about data privacy in actions such as using iPhones instead of Android devices, and in not using Gmail. I am grateful that Apple takes privacy seriously because I would struggle to protect my privacy as well as they do, were they to leave the market.
snowwrestler 6y ago
But what if you could improve your privacy without any inconvenience at all? That's essentially Apple's marketing pitch on this subject, and this poll shows that there are a lot of people with whom it will resonate.
zem 6y ago
and the solution is not to say (or imply) that people have messed-up priorities, it is to figure out how to make the right thing as convenient as possible.

parthdesai 6y ago

How many of those 81% are willing to delete facebook, messenger and instagram though?

simonh 6y ago
Probably very few if that’s what their friends use, but that doesn’t mean they don’t resent it. A billion people might use Facebook, but 1.3 billion use iMessage. I think this is a significant risk for services that don’t respect user privacy.
- parthdesai 6y ago
  I call bullshit on more people using iMessage than any of facebook related services. In this case, I feel like you've a very North American point of view. Majority people who have a smart phone has one of fb/whatsapp/instagram accounts, while iPhones don't even make up for the majority of market share when it comes to smartphone.
  - simonh 6y ago
    Huh, that's interesting. I'm a Brit with a Chinese wife and spend a lot of time over there as well, so I'd hardly call my views America centric. There are a dozen countries I've spent more time in than the USA. It is possible I have a geographic bias, Facebook is barely a thing in China.
    - parthdesai 6y ago
      But China is an exception. This link says Whatsapp has 1.5 billion active users! https://www.businessofapps.com/data/whatsapp-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/whatsapp-statistics/
prewett 6y ago
That's a bad metric. I find Facebook a privacy disaster (and user hostile and i am less happy when I use it). But am I willing to delete it? No, because if I meet someone I can friend them on FB later, and it's my only means of communication for some people. If a better communications network were available I would switch, but since there isn't, I can't.

arkades 6y ago

Expressed Preferences vs. Revealed Preferences >19% of the public uses google and/or facebook services.