5 ms·

>we don't get fancy titles Some people get titles like "code ninja", although I suppose "fancy" isn't really the right word for that.

chrisseaton 6y ago
Yes we make ourselves look like clowns rather than professionals. It's terrible I don't know why we're doing this to ourselves.
- saiya-jin 6y ago
  Immature is the word that comes to my mind. And yes, that generally doesn't produce much respect (or attraction from other sex), does it
  - thegeomaster 6y ago
    Right, a lot of FAANG companies' offices look like kindergartens. I get that all of the perks are "cool" to someone, but to me it's just embarrassing.
    - racl101 6y ago
      It also doesn't help that the perceived uniform of the programmer is a hoodie or an ironic t-shirt and chinos style of pants or similar regalia. Like, that just doesn't look cool. I've been saying this for years. It's no wonder it doesn't look sexy nor command much respect. Especially not compared to a guy wearing a well tailored suit. Sure, it feels good, but that's the same rationale for wearing crocs. You feel great until you look down and realize you're wearing crocs.
      - restalis 6y ago
        "Especially not compared to a guy wearing a well tailored suit." I think you got it wrong. That suit guy has to wear it, because his trade demands it, most likely for that image which has to be conveyed. That programmer can afford to wear that hoodie and still to demand his salary, yet nothing limits him to the hoodie outfit, you see?
        racl101 6y ago
        Fair enough, but the topic at hand are the potential reasons why programming, as a whole, not only doesn't command must prestige/ respect, but in some sense kinda seems like a joke to outsiders. And my contention was that programmers choosing to dress in hoodies and casual pants doesn't seem to help, whether they have a choice to wear it or not nor whether it has any bearing on their salary. To put it in other words, person might see a programmer guy in a hoodie on his way to the office, and that guy might very well command a six figure salary, but that's not the observer's perception or first thought. I'm not arguing about which is right or just, I'm just arguing about the reasons of why things are the way they are. And maybe, you might think: who cares? Let them think that. Which, again, fair enough. But in the overall grand picture, if a lot of people have similar perceptions, it might not bode well for our profession overall. I mean, it's not just about attracting the opposite sex, it's also, as some already stated, inspiring more people to do take up computer science.
      - mixmastamyk 6y ago
        I get the digs at the other clothes, but what exactly is wrong with khaki pants? Which is what I assume you mean by "chinos."
    - simple_phrases 6y ago
      They're trying to attract young kids who haven't made the connection that forgoing ping pong table real estate and "cool" office perks would mean larger compensation packages for themselves.
    - ahartmetz 6y ago
      Oh yeah. Even when I was in my mid twenties, when I visited a Google office during some software event, I felt that the decoration was too childish and frankly ugly. The testing or whatever tips on the toilets also felt a little invasive.
- thu2111 6y ago
  Titles like that are hardly common though. I never encountered anyone who called themselves a "code ninja" at the FAANG I worked at. That term seems to be a kind of recruiter stereotype/cliche rather than one professionals actually use.
  - anon_1_1_1 6y ago
    My job title, as it was printed on my employment offer and paycheck, at a start up that was located a few blocks away from the Google HQ in Mountain View in 2014 and staffed by plenty of xooglers, was "Front End Hacker". Six figure job. Not that it disproves your statement that the titles are uncommon, but hey, I just want to stand up and say "Hey, us professional hackers and ninjas and cowboys are REAL!"
- viro 6y ago
  The same people that don't consider the tech industry professional are the same people that wouldn't hire Tavis Ormandy because he has a tattoo on his lower arm or doesn't wanna wear a suit every day. Yea so I'd rather wait out the boomers and be comfortable.
- alexashka 6y ago
  Because there is no 'we' doing it to 'ourselves' :) If you want there to be a 'we', that would be called a workers' union. 'Professional' is when you have a strong union that forces companies to treat you as a human being, something they'd much rather not bother with.
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- Nasrudith 6y ago
  It seems deeply embedded historically. The "Traitorous Eight" split off over petty discontent like starting hours and suit requirements as opposed to a desire for more money or something higher minded like their projects with potential being ignored. The entrepreneurial disruption mentality historically has been a "we are sick of your bullcrap and trappings, you idiots haven't been listening so we'll start our own". That it has worked repeatedly and utterly devestated many titans corporations run by "professional" men in suits effectively validated their iconoclasm and rejection of the standards of old. It may be arrogance but there were enough validating moments to understand why. Suits have taken on a negative connotation. It is implicitly seen as hidebound dinosaurdom and an admission of form over function. Sort of an assumption that if they are wearing a fancy suit then they are an empty suit.
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chrisseaton 6y ago

Yes we make ourselves look like clowns rather than professionals. It's terrible I don't know why we're doing this to ourselves.

saiya-jin 6y ago
Immature is the word that comes to my mind. And yes, that generally doesn't produce much respect (or attraction from other sex), does it
- thegeomaster 6y ago
  Right, a lot of FAANG companies' offices look like kindergartens. I get that all of the perks are "cool" to someone, but to me it's just embarrassing.
  - racl101 6y ago
    It also doesn't help that the perceived uniform of the programmer is a hoodie or an ironic t-shirt and chinos style of pants or similar regalia. Like, that just doesn't look cool. I've been saying this for years. It's no wonder it doesn't look sexy nor command much respect. Especially not compared to a guy wearing a well tailored suit. Sure, it feels good, but that's the same rationale for wearing crocs. You feel great until you look down and realize you're wearing crocs.
    - restalis 6y ago
      "Especially not compared to a guy wearing a well tailored suit." I think you got it wrong. That suit guy has to wear it, because his trade demands it, most likely for that image which has to be conveyed. That programmer can afford to wear that hoodie and still to demand his salary, yet nothing limits him to the hoodie outfit, you see?
      - racl101 6y ago
        Fair enough, but the topic at hand are the potential reasons why programming, as a whole, not only doesn't command must prestige/ respect, but in some sense kinda seems like a joke to outsiders. And my contention was that programmers choosing to dress in hoodies and casual pants doesn't seem to help, whether they have a choice to wear it or not nor whether it has any bearing on their salary. To put it in other words, person might see a programmer guy in a hoodie on his way to the office, and that guy might very well command a six figure salary, but that's not the observer's perception or first thought. I'm not arguing about which is right or just, I'm just arguing about the reasons of why things are the way they are. And maybe, you might think: who cares? Let them think that. Which, again, fair enough. But in the overall grand picture, if a lot of people have similar perceptions, it might not bode well for our profession overall. I mean, it's not just about attracting the opposite sex, it's also, as some already stated, inspiring more people to do take up computer science.
    - mixmastamyk 6y ago
      I get the digs at the other clothes, but what exactly is wrong with khaki pants? Which is what I assume you mean by "chinos."
  - simple_phrases 6y ago
    They're trying to attract young kids who haven't made the connection that forgoing ping pong table real estate and "cool" office perks would mean larger compensation packages for themselves.
  - ahartmetz 6y ago
    Oh yeah. Even when I was in my mid twenties, when I visited a Google office during some software event, I felt that the decoration was too childish and frankly ugly. The testing or whatever tips on the toilets also felt a little invasive.
thu2111 6y ago
Titles like that are hardly common though. I never encountered anyone who called themselves a "code ninja" at the FAANG I worked at. That term seems to be a kind of recruiter stereotype/cliche rather than one professionals actually use.
- anon_1_1_1 6y ago
  My job title, as it was printed on my employment offer and paycheck, at a start up that was located a few blocks away from the Google HQ in Mountain View in 2014 and staffed by plenty of xooglers, was "Front End Hacker". Six figure job. Not that it disproves your statement that the titles are uncommon, but hey, I just want to stand up and say "Hey, us professional hackers and ninjas and cowboys are REAL!"
viro 6y ago
The same people that don't consider the tech industry professional are the same people that wouldn't hire Tavis Ormandy because he has a tattoo on his lower arm or doesn't wanna wear a suit every day. Yea so I'd rather wait out the boomers and be comfortable.
alexashka 6y ago
Because there is no 'we' doing it to 'ourselves' :) If you want there to be a 'we', that would be called a workers' union. 'Professional' is when you have a strong union that forces companies to treat you as a human being, something they'd much rather not bother with.
- deleted 6y ago
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- deleted 6y ago
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Nasrudith 6y ago
It seems deeply embedded historically. The "Traitorous Eight" split off over petty discontent like starting hours and suit requirements as opposed to a desire for more money or something higher minded like their projects with potential being ignored. The entrepreneurial disruption mentality historically has been a "we are sick of your bullcrap and trappings, you idiots haven't been listening so we'll start our own". That it has worked repeatedly and utterly devestated many titans corporations run by "professional" men in suits effectively validated their iconoclasm and rejection of the standards of old. It may be arrogance but there were enough validating moments to understand why. Suits have taken on a negative connotation. It is implicitly seen as hidebound dinosaurdom and an admission of form over function. Sort of an assumption that if they are wearing a fancy suit then they are an empty suit.

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