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> Trump’s threats to leave NATO Yeah, it's crazy to expect other countries to pay the agreed upon amount to support the organization. Aside from that, why doe

> Trump’s threats to leave NATO Yeah, it's crazy to expect other countries to pay the agreed upon amount to support the organization. Aside from that, why does NATO need to exist? Europe can fight their own battles, they have enough money.

desas 6y ago
The parent voiced no opinion on NATO or Trump. Just the verifiable fact that Trump has opened up leaving. We don't need this topic to turn into a US trump politics thread.
alwayseasy 6y ago
The "agreed upon amount" is due by 2024. So yes, it's crazy to threaten to pull out 6 years ahead of schedule while the main adversary is at war with Ukraine and targeting American soldiers in the Middle East. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/03/three-charts-that-show-why-trump-thinks-nato-is-a-bad-deal.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/03/three-charts-that-show-why-t...
- linuxftw 6y ago
  This article [1] lays out the numbers. > while the main adversary How does this involve the US other than an antiquated alliance to stop the spread of the Soviet Union during the reconstruction period after WW2. That was 75 years ago, Europe can stand on it's own. > war with Ukraine I don't share that assessment. What happened was the democratically elected government was expelled by a paramilitary force, other portions of the Ukraine decided to not recognize the military coup, held elections to secede and join Russia. If you believe in democracy, those voting to secede and join Russia had the authority and justified reason to do so. > targeting American soldiers in the Middle East America seems to keep getting involved in all these fights. This doesn't really have much to do with NATO, though. 1: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/trumps-nato-criticism-is-valid-europe-isnt-spending-enough-on-def.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/trumps-nato-criticism-is-val...
  - M2Ys4U 6y ago
    Oh please. If you think that the vote in Crimea to join Russia was free and fair I have a bridge to sell you.
  - alwayseasy 6y ago
    Your world view calls for the US being isolationist from it's main allies. NATO is a military alliance but has an economic underpinning that strongly advantages the US. NATO is also about countering geopolitical adversaries, Russia is one of them. Russia paying Afghans to kill US soldiers anywhere in the world is part of the overall conflict. Interestingly your isolationism doesn't extend to Russia. They can just invade countries by removing their patches from their uniforms. Ukraine wasn't occupied by paramilitary forces that just happened to have advanced military hardware, trained operatives and special forces that were regularly crossing the Russian border.
    - linuxftw 6y ago
      > Your world view calls for the US being isolationist from it's main allies I'm all for free trade, but I'm against footing the bill for Europe's defense. You might not agree with this opinion, but it's a valid one. I should have a say where my tax money goes. I'd rather invest that money domestically than fighting the big bad wolf that perpetually pesters another continent. There's more non-Russian Europeans than there are Americans. Europe has the population and money required to fend for themselves at this point. > Russia paying Afghans to kill US soldiers anywhere in the world is part of the overall conflict. There's a handful of ways to solve this particular problem (if it's even a legitimate one, but for arguments sake, we'll say it is). We can destroy Russia, we can destroy Afghans, or we can not have US Soldiers places where they're likely to be targeted by these actors. I choose the 3rd option. > Ukraine wasn't occupied by paramilitary forces that just happened to have advanced military hardware, trained operatives and special forces that were regularly crossing the Russian border. What's interesting about this statement is it skips over the the first parts in a series of events. Importantly, the democratically elected government of the Ukraine was overthrown by military force (and, it just so happens, pro-Nato forces overthrew the goverment...). It also ignores the fact that the Ukraine's borders were drawn somewhat arbitrarily, and that the people in those areas have a right to self determination. NATO fired the first shot in the Ukraine and Russia elected to respond.
sveme 6y ago
It‘s not paying into NATO; it‘s spending this percentage of its GDP on its own military.

desas 6y ago

The parent voiced no opinion on NATO or Trump. Just the verifiable fact that Trump has opened up leaving. We don't need this topic to turn into a US trump politics thread.

alwayseasy 6y ago

The "agreed upon amount" is due by 2024. So yes, it's crazy to threaten to pull out 6 years ahead of schedule while the main adversary is at war with Ukraine and targeting American soldiers in the Middle East. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/03/three-charts-that-show-why-trump-thinks-nato-is-a-bad-deal.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/03/three-charts-that-show-why-t...

linuxftw 6y ago
This article [1] lays out the numbers. > while the main adversary How does this involve the US other than an antiquated alliance to stop the spread of the Soviet Union during the reconstruction period after WW2. That was 75 years ago, Europe can stand on it's own. > war with Ukraine I don't share that assessment. What happened was the democratically elected government was expelled by a paramilitary force, other portions of the Ukraine decided to not recognize the military coup, held elections to secede and join Russia. If you believe in democracy, those voting to secede and join Russia had the authority and justified reason to do so. > targeting American soldiers in the Middle East America seems to keep getting involved in all these fights. This doesn't really have much to do with NATO, though. 1: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/trumps-nato-criticism-is-valid-europe-isnt-spending-enough-on-def.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/trumps-nato-criticism-is-val...
- M2Ys4U 6y ago
  Oh please. If you think that the vote in Crimea to join Russia was free and fair I have a bridge to sell you.
- alwayseasy 6y ago
  Your world view calls for the US being isolationist from it's main allies. NATO is a military alliance but has an economic underpinning that strongly advantages the US. NATO is also about countering geopolitical adversaries, Russia is one of them. Russia paying Afghans to kill US soldiers anywhere in the world is part of the overall conflict. Interestingly your isolationism doesn't extend to Russia. They can just invade countries by removing their patches from their uniforms. Ukraine wasn't occupied by paramilitary forces that just happened to have advanced military hardware, trained operatives and special forces that were regularly crossing the Russian border.
  - linuxftw 6y ago
    > Your world view calls for the US being isolationist from it's main allies I'm all for free trade, but I'm against footing the bill for Europe's defense. You might not agree with this opinion, but it's a valid one. I should have a say where my tax money goes. I'd rather invest that money domestically than fighting the big bad wolf that perpetually pesters another continent. There's more non-Russian Europeans than there are Americans. Europe has the population and money required to fend for themselves at this point. > Russia paying Afghans to kill US soldiers anywhere in the world is part of the overall conflict. There's a handful of ways to solve this particular problem (if it's even a legitimate one, but for arguments sake, we'll say it is). We can destroy Russia, we can destroy Afghans, or we can not have US Soldiers places where they're likely to be targeted by these actors. I choose the 3rd option. > Ukraine wasn't occupied by paramilitary forces that just happened to have advanced military hardware, trained operatives and special forces that were regularly crossing the Russian border. What's interesting about this statement is it skips over the the first parts in a series of events. Importantly, the democratically elected government of the Ukraine was overthrown by military force (and, it just so happens, pro-Nato forces overthrew the goverment...). It also ignores the fact that the Ukraine's borders were drawn somewhat arbitrarily, and that the people in those areas have a right to self determination. NATO fired the first shot in the Ukraine and Russia elected to respond.

sveme 6y ago

It‘s not paying into NATO; it‘s spending this percentage of its GDP on its own military.