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I've always seen the same pattern in College decision: self-projection. That is, a combination of what they know and what they think they can do/like. Most peo

I've always seen the same pattern in College decision: self-projection. That is, a combination of what they know and what they think they can do/like. Most people choosing Uni choose from what they know. Majority of young people know little about anything CS or nerdy; They often know the end product (computers, phones, apps) but very little about the people working on it. Compare that to doctors, managers, Wallstreet types, scientist, lawyers; they got incomparable exposure through movies, tv-shows and media in general. Even Scientist have more exposure. Difference is that in those profession, you can see the people working in it (although often not an accurate representation) so it is easy for a young person to imagine "I can see myself wearing their suits, doing what they do". But just as no one applying for college imagine themselves in a janitors boots, there must be a observable social status in the profession too. "you will be socially respectable after 4 years here!" sells better than a salary figure. I really don't think CS majors come close to the (perceived) social status for the young, compared to the above mentioned professions. The closet to high social status an CS gets to is the "IT/tech entrepreneur", and you don't need a CS major to get there.

TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
CS types in the movies are basically magicians. Something needs to happen, they open a laptop, they type away furiously, there's a cutaway which shows them frowning, then a red dialog box on the screen turns green, and the thing happens. It's hard to get from that to the reality developing CRUD apps. There may be some drama, but arguments about which framework to use are not usually very cinematic.
- chasd00 6y ago
  "It's hard to get from that to the reality developing CRUD apps." on a tangent, this is especially bad for Architects. When I was in college I fell in with an Architecture clique, I went to all their parties and made life long friends even though I was majoring in CS and they were all Architecture majors. They were told from day one that unless they're the next Frank Lloyd Wright (or some other world renowned architect), they're a complete failure and an embarrassment to the art. Then they graduate, get certified, and end up copy/pasting facades on Discount Tire construction plans or something else like that. It's a very bitter pill to swallow.
- easterncalculus 6y ago
  I think part of this is the limitations of interest that come from a film. You can write a whole movie about an electrical engineer building robots and visually show the struggles along the way. If you compare that to a software engineer searching for another fucking memory leak or something then it's just not going to be as visually interesting. An interesting thing about this is that I think it's easier to show in print. I can read a book about a maverick developer and have it describe the errors and the trials and tribulations and it isn't as slow by comparison. Hollywood then feels the need to emphasize what they show with wild CGI, which is a whole other issue when it comes to entertaining portrayals. I think the only realistic portrayal I've seen onscreen is Mr. Robot, and even that goes into fiction when it's most needed for the plot.
  - swiley 6y ago
    Valgeind and vim are both pretty neat looking IMO. Showing the real tools occasionally is something I’ve enjoyed seeing in some recent Sci-Fi movies. Tron Legacy and Chappie are both examples and even though the end result was unrealistic I thought they did a neat job showing the engineer working for years tediously on the project.
    - chosenbreed37 6y ago
      > I thought they did a neat job showing the engineer working for years tediously on the project. I don't think that would look very appetizing for someone considering their career options...
    - easterncalculus 6y ago
      Tron did do a decent job, it was cool to see that. At least having a basis in reality goes a long way to making the the 'fi' part believable, if only for those that recognize the basis in current or previous technology.
- chosenbreed37 6y ago
  > CS types in the movies are basically magicians. Something needs to happen, they open a laptop, they type away furiously, there's a cutaway which shows them frowning, then a red dialog box on the screen turns green, and the thing happens. To me this is the interesting part. I guess it's fair to say that you tend to see more and more films with clips of someone hacking away at a computer. Perhaps the issue is they they are rarely the star of the show. They're always the supporting act. Think of the two guys who with work with Tom Cruise in the MI series, or the technicians/magicians that assist James Bond. In the years that have elapsed, in spite of the success of FB, Instagram, Twitter, Stripe, Google, WhatsApp, even Microsoft (presumably all started by "nerds") it seems that it's not something many aspire or look up to.
- TACIXAT 6y ago
  I think this is why I have so much trouble in my career. I just need to resign myself to writing tests, fucking with build systems, and not shipping a ton of features.
rjsw 6y ago
> I've always seen the same pattern in College decision: self-projection. That is, a combination of what they know and what they think they can do/like. I was guilty of that but I don't think I was wrong to think that way. I decided to work in Computing when I was 10 and would like to think that I'm quite good at it, but felt that I'm not good enough at doing essay style exams to be able to pass a CS degree.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  > I decided to work in Computing when I was 10 and would like to think that I'm quite good at it, but felt that I'm not good enough at doing essay style exams to be able to pass a CS degree. This doesn't make much sense; you'd be taking math exams, not writing essays. Source: I have a CS degree.
  - rjsw 6y ago
    I chose to do more maths courses to avoid having to write essays. Source: I failed a CS degree.
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      The number of essays required for a CS degree is zero. If you think otherwise, all I can really say is "you're doing it wrong". Graduating from college usually requires some essays, but there are easy workarounds for that.
      - rjsw 6y ago
        You seem to be assuming that your experience is universal.
        thaumasiotes 6y ago
        Why? I'm assuming that my experience is common, which it is. That's more than enough to disprove the idea "I'm not good enough at doing essay style exams to pass a CS degree". Everyone is that good, because there is no minimum essay-skill requirement to pass a CS degree. Are you thinking that the only CS degree you could conceivably otherwise have passed also had a strict essay requirement?
hindsightbias 6y ago
> janitor boots I’d hazard that in the last decade or so (more than most), CS is akin to being a Digital Janitor. Debugging/repairing things, cleaning up spills, dealing with problems the kids make, working long hours to keep the system going. The difference is, in some markets, you can make a lot more.

TheOtherHobbes 6y ago

CS types in the movies are basically magicians. Something needs to happen, they open a laptop, they type away furiously, there's a cutaway which shows them frowning, then a red dialog box on the screen turns green, and the thing happens. It's hard to get from that to the reality developing CRUD apps. There may be some drama, but arguments about which framework to use are not usually very cinematic.

chasd00 6y ago
"It's hard to get from that to the reality developing CRUD apps." on a tangent, this is especially bad for Architects. When I was in college I fell in with an Architecture clique, I went to all their parties and made life long friends even though I was majoring in CS and they were all Architecture majors. They were told from day one that unless they're the next Frank Lloyd Wright (or some other world renowned architect), they're a complete failure and an embarrassment to the art. Then they graduate, get certified, and end up copy/pasting facades on Discount Tire construction plans or something else like that. It's a very bitter pill to swallow.
easterncalculus 6y ago
I think part of this is the limitations of interest that come from a film. You can write a whole movie about an electrical engineer building robots and visually show the struggles along the way. If you compare that to a software engineer searching for another fucking memory leak or something then it's just not going to be as visually interesting. An interesting thing about this is that I think it's easier to show in print. I can read a book about a maverick developer and have it describe the errors and the trials and tribulations and it isn't as slow by comparison. Hollywood then feels the need to emphasize what they show with wild CGI, which is a whole other issue when it comes to entertaining portrayals. I think the only realistic portrayal I've seen onscreen is Mr. Robot, and even that goes into fiction when it's most needed for the plot.
- swiley 6y ago
  Valgeind and vim are both pretty neat looking IMO. Showing the real tools occasionally is something I’ve enjoyed seeing in some recent Sci-Fi movies. Tron Legacy and Chappie are both examples and even though the end result was unrealistic I thought they did a neat job showing the engineer working for years tediously on the project.
  - chosenbreed37 6y ago
    > I thought they did a neat job showing the engineer working for years tediously on the project. I don't think that would look very appetizing for someone considering their career options...
  - easterncalculus 6y ago
    Tron did do a decent job, it was cool to see that. At least having a basis in reality goes a long way to making the the 'fi' part believable, if only for those that recognize the basis in current or previous technology.
chosenbreed37 6y ago
> CS types in the movies are basically magicians. Something needs to happen, they open a laptop, they type away furiously, there's a cutaway which shows them frowning, then a red dialog box on the screen turns green, and the thing happens. To me this is the interesting part. I guess it's fair to say that you tend to see more and more films with clips of someone hacking away at a computer. Perhaps the issue is they they are rarely the star of the show. They're always the supporting act. Think of the two guys who with work with Tom Cruise in the MI series, or the technicians/magicians that assist James Bond. In the years that have elapsed, in spite of the success of FB, Instagram, Twitter, Stripe, Google, WhatsApp, even Microsoft (presumably all started by "nerds") it seems that it's not something many aspire or look up to.
TACIXAT 6y ago
I think this is why I have so much trouble in my career. I just need to resign myself to writing tests, fucking with build systems, and not shipping a ton of features.

rjsw 6y ago

> I've always seen the same pattern in College decision: self-projection. That is, a combination of what they know and what they think they can do/like. I was guilty of that but I don't think I was wrong to think that way. I decided to work in Computing when I was 10 and would like to think that I'm quite good at it, but felt that I'm not good enough at doing essay style exams to be able to pass a CS degree.

thaumasiotes 6y ago
> I decided to work in Computing when I was 10 and would like to think that I'm quite good at it, but felt that I'm not good enough at doing essay style exams to be able to pass a CS degree. This doesn't make much sense; you'd be taking math exams, not writing essays. Source: I have a CS degree.
- rjsw 6y ago
  I chose to do more maths courses to avoid having to write essays. Source: I failed a CS degree.
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    The number of essays required for a CS degree is zero. If you think otherwise, all I can really say is "you're doing it wrong". Graduating from college usually requires some essays, but there are easy workarounds for that.
    - rjsw 6y ago
      You seem to be assuming that your experience is universal.
      - thaumasiotes 6y ago
        Why? I'm assuming that my experience is common, which it is. That's more than enough to disprove the idea "I'm not good enough at doing essay style exams to pass a CS degree". Everyone is that good, because there is no minimum essay-skill requirement to pass a CS degree. Are you thinking that the only CS degree you could conceivably otherwise have passed also had a strict essay requirement?

hindsightbias 6y ago

> janitor boots I’d hazard that in the last decade or so (more than most), CS is akin to being a Digital Janitor. Debugging/repairing things, cleaning up spills, dealing with problems the kids make, working long hours to keep the system going. The difference is, in some markets, you can make a lot more.