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I'm ignorant on the topic, but I'm really surprised the US wouldn't share that "equivalent access" to GPS with the UK? Certainly seems like we'd be happy to se

I'm ignorant on the topic, but I'm really surprised the US wouldn't share that "equivalent access" to GPS with the UK? Certainly seems like we'd be happy to sell such access to a close ally for less than the $600+ million investment referenced here...

threeseed 6y ago
The US may already do this under the Five Eyes agreement. But given how Trump has shaken alliances even countries like UK are realising the importance of being self-sufficient.
- C1sc0cat 6y ago
  Especially as we are so degraded that we could probably not even make basic things like small arms Pistol / Rifle. Given that USA as an ally isn't looking as solid as she used to be and post Brexit will German arms manufacturers be happy to sell to us - better make sure we don't piss of Canada then.
  - hyko 6y ago
    Given that the UK is the second largest global defence exporter in the world–and most definitely do produce pistols and rifles– I think they will be just fine. They ceased membership of the EU, not all international trade.
    - rjsw 6y ago
      The UK doesn't produce military pistols and rifles in any meaningful numbers.
  - rjsw 6y ago
    > better make sure we don't piss of Canada then Diemaco was bought by Colt.
    - C1sc0cat 6y ago
      Ah we could be really fucked then - the Uk should never allowed it to be sold, back when Colt was owned by a British company then. So Plan C some Chaps in sheds then, possibly with Ian from Forgotten weapons as a consultant.
      - rjsw 6y ago
        Well Accuracy International started out as two men in a shed.
pjc50 6y ago
It would certainly be an odd world if we had US-backed nuclear missiles (for which we pay a huge amount) but not US GPS access.
- hyko 6y ago
  The UK government operates its nuclear deterrent independent of control from the U.S.: they would not share control of that capability with any other country (regardless of current defence posture), just as the U.S. would not share the keys to the GPS kingdom with another country. Hence why we keep having to launch what is effectively the same damn system into space.
  - dingaling 6y ago
    Command of the UK Trident force is independent from the USA. However control is more complicated ( as it involves political aspects ) and technically the USA has influence because the UK uses missiles drawn from the common maintenance pool in Georgia.
ceejayoz 6y ago
The UK has gotten burned in the past on that; see the “Skybolt Crisis”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassau_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassau_Agreement Trump’s threats to leave NATO and hardball on Brexit trade deals likely leave “let’s rely on the US” a nonstarter.
- linuxftw 6y ago
  > Trump’s threats to leave NATO Yeah, it's crazy to expect other countries to pay the agreed upon amount to support the organization. Aside from that, why does NATO need to exist? Europe can fight their own battles, they have enough money.
  - desas 6y ago
    The parent voiced no opinion on NATO or Trump. Just the verifiable fact that Trump has opened up leaving. We don't need this topic to turn into a US trump politics thread.
  - alwayseasy 6y ago
    The "agreed upon amount" is due by 2024. So yes, it's crazy to threaten to pull out 6 years ahead of schedule while the main adversary is at war with Ukraine and targeting American soldiers in the Middle East. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/03/three-charts-that-show-why-trump-thinks-nato-is-a-bad-deal.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/03/three-charts-that-show-why-t...
    - linuxftw 6y ago
      This article [1] lays out the numbers. > while the main adversary How does this involve the US other than an antiquated alliance to stop the spread of the Soviet Union during the reconstruction period after WW2. That was 75 years ago, Europe can stand on it's own. > war with Ukraine I don't share that assessment. What happened was the democratically elected government was expelled by a paramilitary force, other portions of the Ukraine decided to not recognize the military coup, held elections to secede and join Russia. If you believe in democracy, those voting to secede and join Russia had the authority and justified reason to do so. > targeting American soldiers in the Middle East America seems to keep getting involved in all these fights. This doesn't really have much to do with NATO, though. 1: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/trumps-nato-criticism-is-valid-europe-isnt-spending-enough-on-def.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/trumps-nato-criticism-is-val...

threeseed 6y ago

The US may already do this under the Five Eyes agreement. But given how Trump has shaken alliances even countries like UK are realising the importance of being self-sufficient.

C1sc0cat 6y ago
Especially as we are so degraded that we could probably not even make basic things like small arms Pistol / Rifle. Given that USA as an ally isn't looking as solid as she used to be and post Brexit will German arms manufacturers be happy to sell to us - better make sure we don't piss of Canada then.
- hyko 6y ago
  Given that the UK is the second largest global defence exporter in the world–and most definitely do produce pistols and rifles– I think they will be just fine. They ceased membership of the EU, not all international trade.
  - rjsw 6y ago
    The UK doesn't produce military pistols and rifles in any meaningful numbers.
- rjsw 6y ago
  > better make sure we don't piss of Canada then Diemaco was bought by Colt.
  - C1sc0cat 6y ago
    Ah we could be really fucked then - the Uk should never allowed it to be sold, back when Colt was owned by a British company then. So Plan C some Chaps in sheds then, possibly with Ian from Forgotten weapons as a consultant.
    - rjsw 6y ago
      Well Accuracy International started out as two men in a shed.

pjc50 6y ago

It would certainly be an odd world if we had US-backed nuclear missiles (for which we pay a huge amount) but not US GPS access.

hyko 6y ago
The UK government operates its nuclear deterrent independent of control from the U.S.: they would not share control of that capability with any other country (regardless of current defence posture), just as the U.S. would not share the keys to the GPS kingdom with another country. Hence why we keep having to launch what is effectively the same damn system into space.
- dingaling 6y ago
  Command of the UK Trident force is independent from the USA. However control is more complicated ( as it involves political aspects ) and technically the USA has influence because the UK uses missiles drawn from the common maintenance pool in Georgia.

ceejayoz 6y ago

The UK has gotten burned in the past on that; see the “Skybolt Crisis”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassau_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassau_Agreement Trump’s threats to leave NATO and hardball on Brexit trade deals likely leave “let’s rely on the US” a nonstarter.

linuxftw 6y ago
> Trump’s threats to leave NATO Yeah, it's crazy to expect other countries to pay the agreed upon amount to support the organization. Aside from that, why does NATO need to exist? Europe can fight their own battles, they have enough money.
- desas 6y ago
  The parent voiced no opinion on NATO or Trump. Just the verifiable fact that Trump has opened up leaving. We don't need this topic to turn into a US trump politics thread.
- alwayseasy 6y ago
  The "agreed upon amount" is due by 2024. So yes, it's crazy to threaten to pull out 6 years ahead of schedule while the main adversary is at war with Ukraine and targeting American soldiers in the Middle East. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/03/three-charts-that-show-why-trump-thinks-nato-is-a-bad-deal.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/03/three-charts-that-show-why-t...
  - linuxftw 6y ago
    This article [1] lays out the numbers. > while the main adversary How does this involve the US other than an antiquated alliance to stop the spread of the Soviet Union during the reconstruction period after WW2. That was 75 years ago, Europe can stand on it's own. > war with Ukraine I don't share that assessment. What happened was the democratically elected government was expelled by a paramilitary force, other portions of the Ukraine decided to not recognize the military coup, held elections to secede and join Russia. If you believe in democracy, those voting to secede and join Russia had the authority and justified reason to do so. > targeting American soldiers in the Middle East America seems to keep getting involved in all these fights. This doesn't really have much to do with NATO, though. 1: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/trumps-nato-criticism-is-valid-europe-isnt-spending-enough-on-def.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/trumps-nato-criticism-is-val...