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I don't really take an article serious if it quotes Adrian Zenz as an expert, he has an online doctorate from a small private college in an unrelated field, and

I don't really take an article serious if it quotes Adrian Zenz as an expert, he has an online doctorate from a small private college in an unrelated field, and he's a born again Christian and staunch anti-communist. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz I think it is fair to criticise the two child policy, but acting as if it is targeted discrimination once they start enforcing it in Xinjiang, too, is a bit ridiculous. - the article even mentions that Xinjiang had one of the highest birthrates in the country for a long time.

aaron695 6y ago
There is a serious problem with the constant lies coming out about the Uighurs. Cut up for organs is one that comes to mind. So it is hard to see here what is actually going on around birth control in a country that for so long had a one child policy for everyone. That said this issue dwarfs so many others, like BLM for instance, but the Uighurs gets close to no air time. This is an ok Twitter feed with citizen investigations using satellite images https://twitter.com/Nrg8000 https://twitter.com/Nrg8000
- dirtyid 6y ago
  Some atrocity propaganda, i.e. testimony in this very article: >Tursunay Ziyawudun, said she was injected until she stopped having her period, and kicked repeatedly in the lower stomach during interrogations. She now can’t have children and often doubles over in pain, bleeding from her womb, she said. Ziyawudun last year: “I was taken to a hospital to undergo a [sterilization] operation, but because I have always suffered from a gynaecological condition the doctor said I could suffer complications that include death, so they spared me,” she said. Dina Nurdbay >camp which separated married and unmarried women. The married women were given pregnancy tests, Nurdybay recalled, and forced to have IUDs installed if they had children Her interview with Bitterwinter 4 months ago, zero mention of any "family planning", mostly how CCP is messing with her finances. Previously there was Sayragul Sauytbay who "did not personally see violence" at the camps in 2018 to "inmates were flayed, raped by guards in front of other prisoners, and given injections that made them infertile" in 2019. The atrocity propaganda is synced with US movement on Uyghur legislation, this article is probably prelude to actual sanctions from passing the sanction act last week. Obviously we know Trump doesn't give a shit about the Uyghurs. Ruser does good work. ASPI is reliably anti-China and funded by US MIC, but at least they're data oriented. They're continuing Zenz analysis, though it's kind of crazy no one has corroborated his estimates / extrapolations yet. We're still getting ranges from 180-1200 detention facilities, but basically every estimate from the media basically parrots Zenz, whose estimates went from 250K to 2-3M now. Honesty, not unfathomable for Chinese capabilities, but zero corroboration from many state level actors with the resources to :-/. To add, this is not to downplay what's happening in XJ, we know the camps are real from leaked papers, just not the scope. So far every party has demonstrated behavior that indicate they don't actually care about the truth.
  - yorwba 6y ago
    > Dina Nurdbay >>camp which separated married and unmarried women. The married women were given pregnancy tests, Nurdybay recalled, and forced to have IUDs installed if they had children > Her interview with Bitterwinter 4 months ago, zero mention of any "family planning", mostly how CCP is messing with her finances. I assume you mean this article? https://bitterwinter.org/crackdown-on-ethnic-kazakhs-continues-in-xinjiang/ https://bitterwinter.org/crackdown-on-ethnic-kazakhs-continu... I don't think those are necessarily contradictory. That article glosses over a lot with "Dina went into horrific details about tortures in the camps, about blackmailing and threats if she didn’t obey the severe CCP rules." and it's possible that "The married women were given pregnancy tests and forced to have IUDs installed if they had children" was one of those details. In both articles it's mentioned that she was not yet married at the time, so her information about IUDs isn't first-hand. Maybe she heard it from the woman who shared her cell? It wouldn't be surprising if some inaccuracies were introduced in the process of retelling and translating the story. E.g. it might have applied to only those women who had more children than allowed, in which case it would be sad but also nothing new. I definitely agree it's hard to tell what the scope of the problem is if articles get written by picking a topic and then collecting a handful of statements by people who mentioned it once, even if they were more concerned with something else.

aaron695 6y ago

There is a serious problem with the constant lies coming out about the Uighurs. Cut up for organs is one that comes to mind. So it is hard to see here what is actually going on around birth control in a country that for so long had a one child policy for everyone. That said this issue dwarfs so many others, like BLM for instance, but the Uighurs gets close to no air time. This is an ok Twitter feed with citizen investigations using satellite images https://twitter.com/Nrg8000 https://twitter.com/Nrg8000

dirtyid 6y ago
Some atrocity propaganda, i.e. testimony in this very article: >Tursunay Ziyawudun, said she was injected until she stopped having her period, and kicked repeatedly in the lower stomach during interrogations. She now can’t have children and often doubles over in pain, bleeding from her womb, she said. Ziyawudun last year: “I was taken to a hospital to undergo a [sterilization] operation, but because I have always suffered from a gynaecological condition the doctor said I could suffer complications that include death, so they spared me,” she said. Dina Nurdbay >camp which separated married and unmarried women. The married women were given pregnancy tests, Nurdybay recalled, and forced to have IUDs installed if they had children Her interview with Bitterwinter 4 months ago, zero mention of any "family planning", mostly how CCP is messing with her finances. Previously there was Sayragul Sauytbay who "did not personally see violence" at the camps in 2018 to "inmates were flayed, raped by guards in front of other prisoners, and given injections that made them infertile" in 2019. The atrocity propaganda is synced with US movement on Uyghur legislation, this article is probably prelude to actual sanctions from passing the sanction act last week. Obviously we know Trump doesn't give a shit about the Uyghurs. Ruser does good work. ASPI is reliably anti-China and funded by US MIC, but at least they're data oriented. They're continuing Zenz analysis, though it's kind of crazy no one has corroborated his estimates / extrapolations yet. We're still getting ranges from 180-1200 detention facilities, but basically every estimate from the media basically parrots Zenz, whose estimates went from 250K to 2-3M now. Honesty, not unfathomable for Chinese capabilities, but zero corroboration from many state level actors with the resources to :-/. To add, this is not to downplay what's happening in XJ, we know the camps are real from leaked papers, just not the scope. So far every party has demonstrated behavior that indicate they don't actually care about the truth.
- yorwba 6y ago
  > Dina Nurdbay >>camp which separated married and unmarried women. The married women were given pregnancy tests, Nurdybay recalled, and forced to have IUDs installed if they had children > Her interview with Bitterwinter 4 months ago, zero mention of any "family planning", mostly how CCP is messing with her finances. I assume you mean this article? https://bitterwinter.org/crackdown-on-ethnic-kazakhs-continues-in-xinjiang/ https://bitterwinter.org/crackdown-on-ethnic-kazakhs-continu... I don't think those are necessarily contradictory. That article glosses over a lot with "Dina went into horrific details about tortures in the camps, about blackmailing and threats if she didn’t obey the severe CCP rules." and it's possible that "The married women were given pregnancy tests and forced to have IUDs installed if they had children" was one of those details. In both articles it's mentioned that she was not yet married at the time, so her information about IUDs isn't first-hand. Maybe she heard it from the woman who shared her cell? It wouldn't be surprising if some inaccuracies were introduced in the process of retelling and translating the story. E.g. it might have applied to only those women who had more children than allowed, in which case it would be sad but also nothing new. I definitely agree it's hard to tell what the scope of the problem is if articles get written by picking a topic and then collecting a handful of statements by people who mentioned it once, even if they were more concerned with something else.