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China forces birth control on Uighurs to suppress population

70 points by baylearn 6y ago

srean 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Child_Nation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Child_Nation is what they did with benevolence in mind. When you strip that veneer of benevolence away … The documentary is worth watching, although not the easiest one to watch.
- yorwba 6y ago
  There was nothing benevolent about the one-child policy. It was based on the idea that high birth rates were something for poor agrarians, but that the modern industrialized nation that China would become wouldn't need all those people and should in fact prevent them from being born to avoid overpopulation. Then when early efforts to promote voluntary birth control didn't drop the birth rate far enough, they added punitive fines, forced abortions and routine sterilizations to the toolbox. The switch to the two-child policy was not due to a realization that all of that was unethical, but simply an adjustment of the target. Hence the simultaneous existence of programs promoting childbirth in regions below target, while people who have more children than planned are still punished harshly. It's all about staying on target.
rbecker 6y ago
> China’s new Communist rulers ordered thousands of soldiers to settle in Xinjiang, pushing the Han population from 6.7% that year to more than 40% by 1980. The move sowed anxiety about Chinese migration that persists to this day. So, xenophobia?
bakuninsbart 6y ago
I don't really take an article serious if it quotes Adrian Zenz as an expert, he has an online doctorate from a small private college in an unrelated field, and he's a born again Christian and staunch anti-communist. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz I think it is fair to criticise the two child policy, but acting as if it is targeted discrimination once they start enforcing it in Xinjiang, too, is a bit ridiculous. - the article even mentions that Xinjiang had one of the highest birthrates in the country for a long time.
- aaron695 6y ago
  There is a serious problem with the constant lies coming out about the Uighurs. Cut up for organs is one that comes to mind. So it is hard to see here what is actually going on around birth control in a country that for so long had a one child policy for everyone. That said this issue dwarfs so many others, like BLM for instance, but the Uighurs gets close to no air time. This is an ok Twitter feed with citizen investigations using satellite images https://twitter.com/Nrg8000 https://twitter.com/Nrg8000
  - dirtyid 6y ago
    Some atrocity propaganda, i.e. testimony in this very article: >Tursunay Ziyawudun, said she was injected until she stopped having her period, and kicked repeatedly in the lower stomach during interrogations. She now can’t have children and often doubles over in pain, bleeding from her womb, she said. Ziyawudun last year: “I was taken to a hospital to undergo a [sterilization] operation, but because I have always suffered from a gynaecological condition the doctor said I could suffer complications that include death, so they spared me,” she said. Dina Nurdbay >camp which separated married and unmarried women. The married women were given pregnancy tests, Nurdybay recalled, and forced to have IUDs installed if they had children Her interview with Bitterwinter 4 months ago, zero mention of any "family planning", mostly how CCP is messing with her finances. Previously there was Sayragul Sauytbay who "did not personally see violence" at the camps in 2018 to "inmates were flayed, raped by guards in front of other prisoners, and given injections that made them infertile" in 2019. The atrocity propaganda is synced with US movement on Uyghur legislation, this article is probably prelude to actual sanctions from passing the sanction act last week. Obviously we know Trump doesn't give a shit about the Uyghurs. Ruser does good work. ASPI is reliably anti-China and funded by US MIC, but at least they're data oriented. They're continuing Zenz analysis, though it's kind of crazy no one has corroborated his estimates / extrapolations yet. We're still getting ranges from 180-1200 detention facilities, but basically every estimate from the media basically parrots Zenz, whose estimates went from 250K to 2-3M now. Honesty, not unfathomable for Chinese capabilities, but zero corroboration from many state level actors with the resources to :-/. To add, this is not to downplay what's happening in XJ, we know the camps are real from leaked papers, just not the scope. So far every party has demonstrated behavior that indicate they don't actually care about the truth.
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
considering China's * treatment of the Uighurs * the constant transgressions in the South China Sea, * their breaking of the 1 country 2 systems promise in HongKong * their not accepting Taiwan as a country * their race to blanket the globe with surveillance tech and an ideology where Social Credit System is viewed as a viable route * invasion of Tibet and genocide of indigenous population there * current stand-off with India * their whitewashing of their past crimes (Tianman) * their cover-up of covid which makes them a threat to global health * ... how long will the West wait until they take action? If there has ever been a justification for pre-emptive warfare as envisioned by the neocons during Bush this is the time (I never thought I'd think or even say this). Every month that the world waits and doesn't go to war with China the stronger their position (and its abuse) will become. We have already waited for 2 generations hoping that China will eventually take humanitarian values seriously. It's not going to happen. Soft power has failed. The world needs to go in and topple that regime.
- ourlordcaffeine 6y ago
  >how long will the West wait until they take action? I think most people in the west are simply ignorant of the situation. I've been told by Taiwanese people living in the west that most westerners don't even know of Taiwan, or think it is Thailand. Many western governments are addicted to Chinese money. The EU will never do anything concrete with regards to China since someone will probably veto. Quite a few activist type people I know/knew (like the "occupy" anti-capitalist crowd) are pro-China, with a bunch of set talking points either justifying things the CCP did or calling it fake news. I think "sinophobia" is on track to become the new "antisemitism", whereby it is a legitimate issue that quickly gets hijacked by nationalists who want to discredit anyone who criticizes Israel (or China).
- panpanna 6y ago
  I think we are passed the point where we can win a war against China without major causalities. It's much cheaper and safer to (1) stop buying stuff from China to create economic unrest and (2) support forces that fight for a more free China. (Purely hypothetical, I don't really condone any of this)
- 6y ago
panpanna 6y ago
Well, this is actually an improvement compared to what happened before: https://share.america.gov/china-coerces-uighur-women-into-unwanted-marriages/ https://share.america.gov/china-coerces-uighur-women-into-un...

70 points by baylearn 6y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Child_Nation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Child_Nation is what they did with benevolence in mind. When you strip that veneer of benevolence away … The documentary is worth watching, although not the easiest one to watch.

yorwba 6y ago
There was nothing benevolent about the one-child policy. It was based on the idea that high birth rates were something for poor agrarians, but that the modern industrialized nation that China would become wouldn't need all those people and should in fact prevent them from being born to avoid overpopulation. Then when early efforts to promote voluntary birth control didn't drop the birth rate far enough, they added punitive fines, forced abortions and routine sterilizations to the toolbox. The switch to the two-child policy was not due to a realization that all of that was unethical, but simply an adjustment of the target. Hence the simultaneous existence of programs promoting childbirth in regions below target, while people who have more children than planned are still punished harshly. It's all about staying on target.

rbecker 6y ago

> China’s new Communist rulers ordered thousands of soldiers to settle in Xinjiang, pushing the Han population from 6.7% that year to more than 40% by 1980. The move sowed anxiety about Chinese migration that persists to this day. So, xenophobia?

bakuninsbart 6y ago

I don't really take an article serious if it quotes Adrian Zenz as an expert, he has an online doctorate from a small private college in an unrelated field, and he's a born again Christian and staunch anti-communist. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz I think it is fair to criticise the two child policy, but acting as if it is targeted discrimination once they start enforcing it in Xinjiang, too, is a bit ridiculous. - the article even mentions that Xinjiang had one of the highest birthrates in the country for a long time.

aaron695 6y ago
There is a serious problem with the constant lies coming out about the Uighurs. Cut up for organs is one that comes to mind. So it is hard to see here what is actually going on around birth control in a country that for so long had a one child policy for everyone. That said this issue dwarfs so many others, like BLM for instance, but the Uighurs gets close to no air time. This is an ok Twitter feed with citizen investigations using satellite images https://twitter.com/Nrg8000 https://twitter.com/Nrg8000
- dirtyid 6y ago
  Some atrocity propaganda, i.e. testimony in this very article: >Tursunay Ziyawudun, said she was injected until she stopped having her period, and kicked repeatedly in the lower stomach during interrogations. She now can’t have children and often doubles over in pain, bleeding from her womb, she said. Ziyawudun last year: “I was taken to a hospital to undergo a [sterilization] operation, but because I have always suffered from a gynaecological condition the doctor said I could suffer complications that include death, so they spared me,” she said. Dina Nurdbay >camp which separated married and unmarried women. The married women were given pregnancy tests, Nurdybay recalled, and forced to have IUDs installed if they had children Her interview with Bitterwinter 4 months ago, zero mention of any "family planning", mostly how CCP is messing with her finances. Previously there was Sayragul Sauytbay who "did not personally see violence" at the camps in 2018 to "inmates were flayed, raped by guards in front of other prisoners, and given injections that made them infertile" in 2019. The atrocity propaganda is synced with US movement on Uyghur legislation, this article is probably prelude to actual sanctions from passing the sanction act last week. Obviously we know Trump doesn't give a shit about the Uyghurs. Ruser does good work. ASPI is reliably anti-China and funded by US MIC, but at least they're data oriented. They're continuing Zenz analysis, though it's kind of crazy no one has corroborated his estimates / extrapolations yet. We're still getting ranges from 180-1200 detention facilities, but basically every estimate from the media basically parrots Zenz, whose estimates went from 250K to 2-3M now. Honesty, not unfathomable for Chinese capabilities, but zero corroboration from many state level actors with the resources to :-/. To add, this is not to downplay what's happening in XJ, we know the camps are real from leaked papers, just not the scope. So far every party has demonstrated behavior that indicate they don't actually care about the truth.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

considering China's * treatment of the Uighurs * the constant transgressions in the South China Sea, * their breaking of the 1 country 2 systems promise in HongKong * their not accepting Taiwan as a country * their race to blanket the globe with surveillance tech and an ideology where Social Credit System is viewed as a viable route * invasion of Tibet and genocide of indigenous population there * current stand-off with India * their whitewashing of their past crimes (Tianman) * their cover-up of covid which makes them a threat to global health * ... how long will the West wait until they take action? If there has ever been a justification for pre-emptive warfare as envisioned by the neocons during Bush this is the time (I never thought I'd think or even say this). Every month that the world waits and doesn't go to war with China the stronger their position (and its abuse) will become. We have already waited for 2 generations hoping that China will eventually take humanitarian values seriously. It's not going to happen. Soft power has failed. The world needs to go in and topple that regime.

ourlordcaffeine 6y ago
>how long will the West wait until they take action? I think most people in the west are simply ignorant of the situation. I've been told by Taiwanese people living in the west that most westerners don't even know of Taiwan, or think it is Thailand. Many western governments are addicted to Chinese money. The EU will never do anything concrete with regards to China since someone will probably veto. Quite a few activist type people I know/knew (like the "occupy" anti-capitalist crowd) are pro-China, with a bunch of set talking points either justifying things the CCP did or calling it fake news. I think "sinophobia" is on track to become the new "antisemitism", whereby it is a legitimate issue that quickly gets hijacked by nationalists who want to discredit anyone who criticizes Israel (or China).
panpanna 6y ago
I think we are passed the point where we can win a war against China without major causalities. It's much cheaper and safer to (1) stop buying stuff from China to create economic unrest and (2) support forces that fight for a more free China. (Purely hypothetical, I don't really condone any of this)
6y ago

panpanna 6y ago

Well, this is actually an improvement compared to what happened before: https://share.america.gov/china-coerces-uighur-women-into-unwanted-marriages/ https://share.america.gov/china-coerces-uighur-women-into-un...