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> In many instances, positions that native born workers are not willing to fill create opportunities for migrants. What are these positions that native born wo

> In many instances, positions that native born workers are not willing to fill create opportunities for migrants. What are these positions that native born workers are not willing to fill?

qtplatypus 6y ago
Agricultural labour.
- pnako 6y ago
  They are unwilling to do it at certain wages, yes.
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  Agribusiness frequently wants to pay laborers less than minimum wage, without benefits, and without paying tax on the labor. Saying that Americans don't want to work for $5/hour under the table doesn't imply that they don't want to work those jobs generally.
darth_avocado 6y ago
Software developer in Louisville, KY. They want hundreds of those to build the government systems. They also want 10+ years of experience in VB. Like it or not, while there's plenty of Software Engineering talent in this country, but all of them are gunning for Silicon Valley salaries, meanwhile, the much hated H1Bs are supporting these crucial pieces of infrastructure.
- luckylion 6y ago
  > Like it or not, while there's plenty of Software Engineering talent in this country, but all of them are gunning for Silicon Valley salaries That just means that nobody is willing to fill those positions for the salary offered. The obvious answer in any market system is to increase the salary, and you will get people to fill those positions.
  - darth_avocado 6y ago
    Yes the obvious answer is to pay everyone FAANG salaries. The other obvious follow up is that, the same economics don't work for all companies. Even in Silicon Valley, not every company offers Facebook salaries, and there is a reason for that. It simply is not feasible. This becomes especially true when you start going to public sector. Local governments that run crucial pieces of infrastructure, like the system for food stamps don't have those kinds of budgets. Besides, it's not just about the money. When I briefly worked for non profits in rural America, despite offering VERY lucrative salaries, we were simply not able to fill positions because no one wants to relocate to middle of nowhere.
    - luckylion 6y ago
      > When I briefly worked for non profits in rural America, despite offering VERY lucrative salaries, we were simply not able to fill positions because no one wants to relocate to middle of nowhere. That just means that relocating to the middle of nowhere isn't worth that lucrative salary you offered. Raise it, and they will come. The issue is that for lots of people, living there has huge costs: less networking, harder to get the next job, friends are far away. But if you offer enough money, some will say "I can see my friends at Christmas" and will live & work in the middle of nowhere. On the other hand: with remote work, that shouldn't even be an issue. They don't need to relocate to the middle of nowhere to write code for nowhere's local government. That's the market doing its work. It sucks when you can't fill positions, but I don't think we're anywhere close to "everybody gets FAANG level salaries". Those are 1%-Salaries, and the lower 25% are below $100k.
      - darth_avocado 6y ago
        Like I said before, economics of paying too high to attract people to rural America simply doesn't work out. The example I was talking about was a salary of $130K with benefits in KY. That was with stretching out all of our budget and months of project delays. We finally had to hire a consulting firm that probably hired H1Bs to finish the job. I intentionally left out the part about "remote work". The thing about it is that, it took a pandemic to make people realize that remote work is okay. And even then, even in Silicon Valley, a lot of firms and the employees are still not comfortable with it. I don't think you've worked with a lot of folks out in not so urban states and cities, but there is an even bigger aversion to remote work. Plus, there are parts of government regulations that require you to be physically present in specific locations. There is a reason why these jobs don't get shipped abroad and instead you bring people in to work here.

> In many instances, positions that native born workers are not willing to fill create opportunities for migrants. What are these positions that native born workers are not willing to fill?

qtplatypus 6y ago

Agricultural labour.

pnako 6y ago
They are unwilling to do it at certain wages, yes.
oh_sigh 6y ago
Agribusiness frequently wants to pay laborers less than minimum wage, without benefits, and without paying tax on the labor. Saying that Americans don't want to work for $5/hour under the table doesn't imply that they don't want to work those jobs generally.

darth_avocado 6y ago

Software developer in Louisville, KY. They want hundreds of those to build the government systems. They also want 10+ years of experience in VB. Like it or not, while there's plenty of Software Engineering talent in this country, but all of them are gunning for Silicon Valley salaries, meanwhile, the much hated H1Bs are supporting these crucial pieces of infrastructure.

luckylion 6y ago
> Like it or not, while there's plenty of Software Engineering talent in this country, but all of them are gunning for Silicon Valley salaries That just means that nobody is willing to fill those positions for the salary offered. The obvious answer in any market system is to increase the salary, and you will get people to fill those positions.
- darth_avocado 6y ago
  Yes the obvious answer is to pay everyone FAANG salaries. The other obvious follow up is that, the same economics don't work for all companies. Even in Silicon Valley, not every company offers Facebook salaries, and there is a reason for that. It simply is not feasible. This becomes especially true when you start going to public sector. Local governments that run crucial pieces of infrastructure, like the system for food stamps don't have those kinds of budgets. Besides, it's not just about the money. When I briefly worked for non profits in rural America, despite offering VERY lucrative salaries, we were simply not able to fill positions because no one wants to relocate to middle of nowhere.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    > When I briefly worked for non profits in rural America, despite offering VERY lucrative salaries, we were simply not able to fill positions because no one wants to relocate to middle of nowhere. That just means that relocating to the middle of nowhere isn't worth that lucrative salary you offered. Raise it, and they will come. The issue is that for lots of people, living there has huge costs: less networking, harder to get the next job, friends are far away. But if you offer enough money, some will say "I can see my friends at Christmas" and will live & work in the middle of nowhere. On the other hand: with remote work, that shouldn't even be an issue. They don't need to relocate to the middle of nowhere to write code for nowhere's local government. That's the market doing its work. It sucks when you can't fill positions, but I don't think we're anywhere close to "everybody gets FAANG level salaries". Those are 1%-Salaries, and the lower 25% are below $100k.
    - darth_avocado 6y ago
      Like I said before, economics of paying too high to attract people to rural America simply doesn't work out. The example I was talking about was a salary of $130K with benefits in KY. That was with stretching out all of our budget and months of project delays. We finally had to hire a consulting firm that probably hired H1Bs to finish the job. I intentionally left out the part about "remote work". The thing about it is that, it took a pandemic to make people realize that remote work is okay. And even then, even in Silicon Valley, a lot of firms and the employees are still not comfortable with it. I don't think you've worked with a lot of folks out in not so urban states and cities, but there is an even bigger aversion to remote work. Plus, there are parts of government regulations that require you to be physically present in specific locations. There is a reason why these jobs don't get shipped abroad and instead you bring people in to work here.