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I think people over-estimate Apple's success. As a non-American Apple was never really popular until the iPhone came. The Macs never made it to the East, most o

I think people over-estimate Apple's success. As a non-American Apple was never really popular until the iPhone came. The Macs never made it to the East, most of the world was dominated by PCs. Even with the iPod, most saw it as Walkman 2.0 rather than a completely new disruptive technology. Here in Japan, where iPhone has the highest market share than any other country on the planet, Macs are a rare sight, Airpods are not as ubiquitous as they are in NY, and I only started seeing Apple watches after they launched a tie-up with Suica.

no_wizard 6y ago
I think going from almost bankrupt to a trillion dollar valued company would make Apple an unqualified success though no? No doubt iPhone got them there more than any other product
- harpratap 6y ago
  Yes, definitely. But the article seems to suggest that Apple has enjoyed continued success for past 3 decades. But in reality they only established themselves with the iPhone. Apple's model already has a proven weakness - Microsoft. Had Microsoft created good Mobile OS around 2008-09 iPhone wouldn't have seen much success IMO. So Apple's success is more of lack of a good competitor more than anything else. High end Android phones + Fast, stable, long term supported OS from Microsoft + Developers would have done the same thing to iPhone that PC did to Macs.
  - landryraccoon 6y ago
    > Had Microsoft created good Mobile OS around 2008-09 iPhone wouldn't have seen much success IMO. It sounds like you're not giving Apple enough credit for good hardware. iOS isn't the reason to get an iPhone, the physical device, the actual phone, is the reason. If Apple allowed people to install Windows Mobile on iPhone, I think I'd still get an iPhone, and maybe would install Windows on it.
    - harpratap 6y ago
      For geeks yes, but majority of the world doesn't care about specs. A Nokia or HTC phone has the same quality hardware as an iPhone. Heck HTC even licensed their unibody design to Apple which they are still using till date on the new iPhone SE. And Windows worked amazingly smooth on low end hardware like 510 too, so majority wouldn't have noticed any difference between a Snapdragon or A-series chips.
      - abellerose 6y ago
        The "normal" people care more about the aesthetics of the iPhone than the hardware. Although, everyone places the phone in a case. The outer appearance helps a lot when people are buying and the software animations are still arguably better than android. Basically, Apple has somehow made a complete visual experience pleasing throughout the years and while a Nokia or HTC device can mimic functionality. They still don't give the same impression for "normal" people.
        harpratap 6y ago
        I was talking about a hypothetical scenario where it was Microsoft vs Apple in the mobile space instead of Google vs Apple. Windows worked just as fluid as iOS when they finally got it right, but they were there too late. > The "normal" people care more about the aesthetics of the iPhone than the hardware. That's exactly what I said. iPhone 6 to SE 2020 unibody design is from HTC. They made the same kind of phones on the outside.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        Ericson2314 6y ago
        The iPod already established the Apple brand as a status symbol, so the iPhone had that leg up. I think the issue is less that Apple did amazing things, than everyone else was being sloppy as hell with supply chain and quality control. If you look at post war consumer goods, many have great Craftsmanship. But the lure of planned obselessence and cheep outsourcing ruined most product design and execution, and Apple somehow realized there wasn't a risk of not getting the benefits of planned obselessence in making a fancier-crafted project while hardware was still improving.
  - unsatchmo 6y ago
    This article was written by a former VP of software at Microsoft. You are simultaneously saying that MS is successful in some way that Apple is not and also saying that one of the folks that helped lead MS to success over the last 20 years isn’t competent enough to comment on just how competent and successful Apple has been for the last 15 years. Just drop the bitterness and read the dude’s writing, he knows what he is talking about.
culturestate 6y ago
> I think people over-estimate Apple's success. Leaving aside the unique qualities of the Japanese market, I think this depends a lot on your definition of success. If you believe that a major consumer products company can only be "successful" if they have universal global penetration and a user base in the hundreds of millions, that's certainly a difficult standard to meet. It's also, I'd argue, a very modern standard - nobody would've thought that way in 1995 (or even 2005). On the other hand, if you define "success" as repeatedly shipping good and innovative products that users love over a span of ~40 years and being (mostly) insanely profitable while doing so, then it's hard to argue against Apple's success. Apple also has a market cap of $1.5 Trillion, with a T, so there's that.
- harpratap 6y ago
  Oh yes, that's right. To me a business is successful when they are big enough in their domain that a new tech doesn't suddenly wipe them out. And they have enough money to pivot and adapt and still remain in business. That didn't happen for Apple when they were making Macs, they were same as HTC or Blackberry. Microsoft is a true success, they failed completely at Mobile market and yet here they are, doing just fine. > Apple also has a market cap of $1.5 Trillion, with a T, so there's that. The stock market hasn't been representative of real world for a long time now.
  - culturestate 6y ago
    This feels like an odd definition of success but at any rate - Apple has never been wiped out, though they've come close, so I'm not sure how you can argue against their success on this basis either. Out of curiosity (since you seem to be Japanese) how would you rate companies like Toshiba or Sharp on this scale?
    - harpratap 6y ago
      > since you seem to be Japanese I'm not > how would you rate companies like Toshiba or Sharp on this scale Successful. Because they survived transition from electrical->electronics->semiconductors. Although Sharp may be coming to the end of it's life now because of their LCD tech.

no_wizard 6y ago

I think going from almost bankrupt to a trillion dollar valued company would make Apple an unqualified success though no? No doubt iPhone got them there more than any other product

harpratap 6y ago
Yes, definitely. But the article seems to suggest that Apple has enjoyed continued success for past 3 decades. But in reality they only established themselves with the iPhone. Apple's model already has a proven weakness - Microsoft. Had Microsoft created good Mobile OS around 2008-09 iPhone wouldn't have seen much success IMO. So Apple's success is more of lack of a good competitor more than anything else. High end Android phones + Fast, stable, long term supported OS from Microsoft + Developers would have done the same thing to iPhone that PC did to Macs.
- landryraccoon 6y ago
  > Had Microsoft created good Mobile OS around 2008-09 iPhone wouldn't have seen much success IMO. It sounds like you're not giving Apple enough credit for good hardware. iOS isn't the reason to get an iPhone, the physical device, the actual phone, is the reason. If Apple allowed people to install Windows Mobile on iPhone, I think I'd still get an iPhone, and maybe would install Windows on it.
  - harpratap 6y ago
    For geeks yes, but majority of the world doesn't care about specs. A Nokia or HTC phone has the same quality hardware as an iPhone. Heck HTC even licensed their unibody design to Apple which they are still using till date on the new iPhone SE. And Windows worked amazingly smooth on low end hardware like 510 too, so majority wouldn't have noticed any difference between a Snapdragon or A-series chips.
    - abellerose 6y ago
      The "normal" people care more about the aesthetics of the iPhone than the hardware. Although, everyone places the phone in a case. The outer appearance helps a lot when people are buying and the software animations are still arguably better than android. Basically, Apple has somehow made a complete visual experience pleasing throughout the years and while a Nokia or HTC device can mimic functionality. They still don't give the same impression for "normal" people.
      - harpratap 6y ago
        I was talking about a hypothetical scenario where it was Microsoft vs Apple in the mobile space instead of Google vs Apple. Windows worked just as fluid as iOS when they finally got it right, but they were there too late. > The "normal" people care more about the aesthetics of the iPhone than the hardware. That's exactly what I said. iPhone 6 to SE 2020 unibody design is from HTC. They made the same kind of phones on the outside.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - Ericson2314 6y ago
        The iPod already established the Apple brand as a status symbol, so the iPhone had that leg up. I think the issue is less that Apple did amazing things, than everyone else was being sloppy as hell with supply chain and quality control. If you look at post war consumer goods, many have great Craftsmanship. But the lure of planned obselessence and cheep outsourcing ruined most product design and execution, and Apple somehow realized there wasn't a risk of not getting the benefits of planned obselessence in making a fancier-crafted project while hardware was still improving.
- unsatchmo 6y ago
  This article was written by a former VP of software at Microsoft. You are simultaneously saying that MS is successful in some way that Apple is not and also saying that one of the folks that helped lead MS to success over the last 20 years isn’t competent enough to comment on just how competent and successful Apple has been for the last 15 years. Just drop the bitterness and read the dude’s writing, he knows what he is talking about.

culturestate 6y ago

> I think people over-estimate Apple's success. Leaving aside the unique qualities of the Japanese market, I think this depends a lot on your definition of success. If you believe that a major consumer products company can only be "successful" if they have universal global penetration and a user base in the hundreds of millions, that's certainly a difficult standard to meet. It's also, I'd argue, a very modern standard - nobody would've thought that way in 1995 (or even 2005). On the other hand, if you define "success" as repeatedly shipping good and innovative products that users love over a span of ~40 years and being (mostly) insanely profitable while doing so, then it's hard to argue against Apple's success. Apple also has a market cap of $1.5 Trillion, with a T, so there's that.

harpratap 6y ago
Oh yes, that's right. To me a business is successful when they are big enough in their domain that a new tech doesn't suddenly wipe them out. And they have enough money to pivot and adapt and still remain in business. That didn't happen for Apple when they were making Macs, they were same as HTC or Blackberry. Microsoft is a true success, they failed completely at Mobile market and yet here they are, doing just fine. > Apple also has a market cap of $1.5 Trillion, with a T, so there's that. The stock market hasn't been representative of real world for a long time now.
- culturestate 6y ago
  This feels like an odd definition of success but at any rate - Apple has never been wiped out, though they've come close, so I'm not sure how you can argue against their success on this basis either. Out of curiosity (since you seem to be Japanese) how would you rate companies like Toshiba or Sharp on this scale?
  - harpratap 6y ago
    > since you seem to be Japanese I'm not > how would you rate companies like Toshiba or Sharp on this scale Successful. Because they survived transition from electrical->electronics->semiconductors. Although Sharp may be coming to the end of it's life now because of their LCD tech.