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USPS sells nearly $20B worth of money orders a year
- rasengan 6y agoLots of money laundering it sounds like.
- codezero 6y agoCurious if there are any obvious reasons for the total value to rise from 3bn/q to 7bn/q only to stabilize around 5bn in 2010?
- dubcanada 6y agoCompetition? MoneyGram and Western Union kind of picked up then.
- protomyth 6y agoIt's easier to go to Walmart and get a MoneyGram money order. I would imagine that is the biggest competition. I'm also pretty sure Walmart is cheaper.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoWalmart money orders are about $1 cheaper than USPS money orders, but there are geographies where USPS is more convenient than Walmart for purchasing or cashing said money orders (my local post office is closer than a Walmart, for example). Also, USPS money orders never expire. Those from other providers start to incur fees after a duration of time.
- projektfu 6y agoWal-mart often also has bilingual employees and the post office may not, in my experience.
- ct520 6y agounless you live in AZ. You got to bring in a DNA test of your first born, social, DL, state occupancy, address, etc etc
- EE84M3i 6y agoWhy is this surprising?
- teruakohatu 6y agoIt is surprising that in the day and age of online/phone banking so much money is transferred via. the post office. Postal orders have stopped being used in many other countries. My country (NZ) stopped them in 1986. In New Zealand every few months another bank stops issuing and accepting checks.
- drocer88 6y agoSome people in the U.S. don't have bank accounts and may need to pay a bill.
- thecureforzits 6y agoMore like many. About 6.5% of US households do not have a bank account. There's also the concept of the "under-banked", which covers people who have them but still use non-bank fiscal implements such as payday loans and money orders. That number is about 19% of US households. https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/ https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoPoor people have no problem paying in cash for most services. When an organization does a lot of business using money orders that's a red flag that it's an organization so in the wrong, so terrible, that it can't trust its employees not to skim cash and look the other way when they see each other skim cash.
- tomlockwood 6y agoAmerican banking is surprisingly backwards to outsiders... I went last year and PayPass was like magic to the 7-11 attendant in SF. Transferring money between banks has been a non-trivial issue in America.
- supernova87a 6y agoI would hope that the Fed is investigating (along with FBI/SS/etc), but there is a whole lot of shady shit happening through money orders and gift cards these days...
- kccqzy 6y agoIf you are referring to people gaming the credit card points/rewards system using gift cards and money orders, I don't think there's anything shady about that. If you actually think people are doing that for money laundering, now that probably deserves an investigation but I doubt money launderers are dumb enough to use money orders.
- Spooky23 6y agoPostal money orders are probably pretty low fraud targets given their relationship to the federal government and pretty harsh penalties, Gift cards are a whole other universe. There are many many grifts, from scammers looking to rip off people, to moving cash, avoiding payroll taxes, or other frauds. There’s a pretty active market online for gift cards from places like Home Depot or Walmart.
- TMWNN 6y agoIs that why I've been able to sell Best Buy and Amazon gift cards on eBay for about face value?
- gonesilent 6y agoPeople are paying employees in gift cards to avoid payroll taxes.....reminds me of the Nevada guy who was paying employees in face value of gold coins.
- morpheuskafka 6y agoMoney orders through the post office are the subject to the same $10,000/day Currency Transaction Report filing requirement under BSA as commercial banks. Additionally, the size of each order is limited to $1,000.
- maxwell 6y agoPeaked at $60B in Q1 2001. Edit: Looking again, appears items peaked at 60B, dollar value peaked at $9B in Q1 2007 (but inflation).
- gowld 6y agoThat column is 60M orders. The dollar amount was $30B.
- Despegar 6y agoThe Federal Reserve should buy a bunch of stamps from the USPS if Congress won't bail it out.
- tantalor 6y agoThe fed doesn't just give away money... they can only loan money out, which had to be repaid later.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Despegar 6y agoThey can use the stamps.
- morpheuskafka 6y agoWhat OP is saying would not be "giving away" anything. The stamps would be an appreciating investment (the value of a Forever stamp increases every time the postal rates increase) and could be sold or used at any time.
- hhfy5332 6y agoPostage rate increases are capped to inflation, though. So they don't really appreciate. But it wouldn't ever lose value and could inject some cash into the USPS.
- dmurray 6y agoThey likely have a better implied return than Treasuries and many corporate bonds though, and people invest trillions of dollars in those. Risk-free investments that beat inflation aren't easy to find. There are some issues with postage stamps as an investment, though. They're not as liquid as T-bills, though if they become a popular investment that problem solves itself. More worrying is that the USPS is not quite as reliable a borrower as the US federal government - can you really be certain this would never lose value? I'd like to see where the bond ratings agencies would rate USPS stamps.
- burlesona 6y agoOne of the most annoying things is that some US government agencies still require payment via money order. For example, we were not able to get our daughter’s birth certificate without paying via MO. That turned out to be the most inconvenient $20 I’ve ever scrounged up.
- saidmasoud 6y agoInconvenience is an understatement. I tried to get my kid's birth certificate from our state's health department; waited three weeks for them to send it back because of a minor typo. Ended up spending one morning driving 1.5 hours (one way) to the capitol to get it in person.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- sharkweek 6y agoLet me tell you about my actual birth date and the birth date the social security administration has on file being different. I have spent at least a decade trying to get them to correct it but as far as they are concerned I was born one month earlier than the date on my birth certificate. I gave up and when I retire will enjoy one extra month of social security benefits courtesy of the federal tax payers.
- LurkersWillLurk 6y agoHave you contacted your member of Congress? They have constituent services that help with these kinds of things. You could also submit a Privacy Act correction request.
- jedberg 6y ago> I gave up and when I retire will enjoy one extra month of social security benefits courtesy of the federal tax payers. $10 says that they finally fix the error after you collect your first check, and then prosecute you for fraud.
- 6y ago
- knodi123 6y agoWhat's really weird is that I don't know anyone who's ever bought one. It must be really confined to specific cultures or economic classes.
- tjohns 6y agoI've used them for four main reasons: 1) You're paying for something already going through the mail (e.g. sending a form to the government). You can usually send a check, but some banks don't issue checkbooks anymore. 2) You're sending a payment to an individual online (e.g. eBay, Craigslist), and who won't accept online payments. Some merchants do accept PayPal, but raise the price to account for the merchant fee; a money order may be significantly cheaper for large purchases. If it's a scam, it also becomes mail fraud and you have the Postal Inspection Service on your side. 3) You need to make a deposit payment to someone like a landlord. They often won't accept checks, because they can bounce. Money orders and cashiers checks are sometimes the only accepted payment. Of the two, a money order is usually cheaper than a cashier's check.
- newsclues 6y ago4) payment for illegal goods/services
- tjohns 6y ago"Four" was a typo on my part. I'm definitely not buying anything illegal. Sheesh. (Honestly, I think a money order would be terrible for this since they're traceable.)
- greenyoda 6y ago> a money order is usually cheaper than a cashier's check My bank (one of the big U.S. banks) issues cashier's checks for free if you have an account there - you just hand them a withdrawal slip and they'll give you the check instead of cash. (I just have a basic checking account, not some kind of fancy "premier relationship" with my bank.)
- JonathonW 6y ago
- raincom 6y agoIn other words, $20B is untraceable to origin. Not bad, considering how much physical currency in circulation $20B/330M population = $60 per capita. Uncle Sam must be happy.
- 8bitsrule 6y agoIn the US, it was possible to do banking at the Post Office until the 1960s. Given the crappy reputation of the 'Payday Lending' type services, there've been many suggestions in recent years to make it possible to bank at Post Offices again. This would end one part of the deliberate gutting of public services (and the sorry outcomes which usually result). And it would give the PO another source of revenue for services ... which in my estimation would a terrific thing. Once the USPO is gone, watch out. ADDED: According to Bloomberg (in 2013), "Banks have shut 1,826 branches since late 2008, and 93 percent of closings were in postal codes where the household income is below the national median, according to census and federal banking data compiled by Bloomberg." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-02/post-crash-branch-closings-hit-hardest-in-poor-u-s-areas https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-02/post-cras...
- Thorentis 6y agoMany branchless banks have partnered with AusPost to allow banking at any AusPost branch (of which there are many). And all for free! You can deposit, withdraw (within limits) send money, exchange currency, pay bills, etc. The US banking system seems so far behind, and for one of the world's largest economies it's laughable.
- 8bitsrule 6y agoMany events in the US since 1980 are certainly laughable from a foreign perspective, and to many of us, more than painful from a native one. But watch as the pendulum swings. (I'm not in a position to understand what 'all for free' means, but I've learned to be skeptical about that assertion. 'Until when?' for example.)
- Thorentis 6y agoI agree that "until when" is usually a good caveat to keep in mind, but in this case branchless banks basically have to offer free services somehow, since banks with branches don't charge for any of those things. So in order to incentivise people to join, offering an alternative way to bank that is not any more expensive is a must. This is especially true for elderly people that prefer to bank in person. I never go into a bank unless I want to withdraw or deposit large amounts of cash, and prefer to hand cash over to a human than trusting an ATM not to stuff something up.
- Something1234 6y agoI for one am glad that the postal service sells money orders especially if I'm out at strip mall sushi place with a broken credit card machine and I don't have cash, but there's a post office nearby to get a money order to pay the bill. (This actually happened).
- stevespang 6y agoNow we need data to determine what percentage and dollar amount are purchased by illegal immigrants sending remittances back South . . .