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Not sure how useful that save thing is in practice. Great for dragging into other apps, but to save to disk you still had to navigate through the filesystem any

Not sure how useful that save thing is in practice. Great for dragging into other apps, but to save to disk you still had to navigate through the filesystem anyway, just outside of the application.

kybernetikos 6y ago
Which sounds terrible, but only because we've been conditioned by apps that don't work well together. On Mac and Windows, workflows where you have multiple apps active at the same time are rare, and elements of the UI (e.g. sticking the menu for a single active application at the top of the screen) actively discourage you from using multiple apps together. In RISCOS the filer was pleasant to use, and the UI pushed you towards workflows that had different apps including the filer working together. It wasn't perfect, but it also wasn't as bad as you might think if you're used to the mainstream operating systems around today. I was surprised when I switched from RISCOS to Windows just how much windows wants you to work in a 'single task' mode.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  This is possibly the single biggest failure in all the modern OSs. Even though they multitask internally, single-task mode is baked into the UI. Not only is there no easy way to compose application chains, the UX discourages you from thinking that applications chains might be possible. Automation incredibly difficult - it's impossible for most people, and not easy even if you have developer-level skills. But worse, your data is locked into these monolithic applications. Project interchange isn't usually a thing at all, and data interchange formats tend to be lossy and/or unreliably implemented. Pipes in a command line shell are a poor substitute for the wonders that would be possible with a common and easy to use composable and automatable UI/API framework and data interchange system.
  - paulryanrogers 6y ago
    Data formats may be the biggest blocker here. Think of all the ways copy paste goes sideways today. I've grown accustomed to always using the paste-plain-text way.
    - kybernetikos 6y ago
      Data formats was one of the interesting benefits of RISCOS. Since there was a bitmap editor and a vector editor built into the ROM, any program where it made any kind of sense to could work with the vector format supported by the vector editor and the bitmap format supported by the system bitmap editor. As you point out, those standard interchange formats were definitely part of what and enabled and encouraged cross application workflows.
- adonovan 6y ago
  In addition, Mac and Windows always lift the most recently clicked window to the top, whereas RISC OS would not, making it much easier to set up a screen layout in which several apps cooperate as equals. I still find this to be a pain on my Mac today.
- danellis 6y ago
  > Which sounds terrible, but only because we've been conditioned by apps that don't work well together. Nothing to do with "conditioning". I had no experience of any other desktop environment at the time.

Not sure how useful that save thing is in practice. Great for dragging into other apps, but to save to disk you still had to navigate through the filesystem anyway, just outside of the application.

kybernetikos 6y ago

Which sounds terrible, but only because we've been conditioned by apps that don't work well together. On Mac and Windows, workflows where you have multiple apps active at the same time are rare, and elements of the UI (e.g. sticking the menu for a single active application at the top of the screen) actively discourage you from using multiple apps together. In RISCOS the filer was pleasant to use, and the UI pushed you towards workflows that had different apps including the filer working together. It wasn't perfect, but it also wasn't as bad as you might think if you're used to the mainstream operating systems around today. I was surprised when I switched from RISCOS to Windows just how much windows wants you to work in a 'single task' mode.

TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
This is possibly the single biggest failure in all the modern OSs. Even though they multitask internally, single-task mode is baked into the UI. Not only is there no easy way to compose application chains, the UX discourages you from thinking that applications chains might be possible. Automation incredibly difficult - it's impossible for most people, and not easy even if you have developer-level skills. But worse, your data is locked into these monolithic applications. Project interchange isn't usually a thing at all, and data interchange formats tend to be lossy and/or unreliably implemented. Pipes in a command line shell are a poor substitute for the wonders that would be possible with a common and easy to use composable and automatable UI/API framework and data interchange system.
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  Data formats may be the biggest blocker here. Think of all the ways copy paste goes sideways today. I've grown accustomed to always using the paste-plain-text way.
  - kybernetikos 6y ago
    Data formats was one of the interesting benefits of RISCOS. Since there was a bitmap editor and a vector editor built into the ROM, any program where it made any kind of sense to could work with the vector format supported by the vector editor and the bitmap format supported by the system bitmap editor. As you point out, those standard interchange formats were definitely part of what and enabled and encouraged cross application workflows.
adonovan 6y ago
In addition, Mac and Windows always lift the most recently clicked window to the top, whereas RISC OS would not, making it much easier to set up a screen layout in which several apps cooperate as equals. I still find this to be a pain on my Mac today.
danellis 6y ago
> Which sounds terrible, but only because we've been conditioned by apps that don't work well together. Nothing to do with "conditioning". I had no experience of any other desktop environment at the time.