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Hey everyone, author here. It seems like this post have been flagged, but I'd like to add a little comment here so it may clarify things. First, a little over

Hey everyone, author here. It seems like this post have been flagged, but I'd like to add a little comment here so it may clarify things. First, a little over a week ago we were having a similar discussion here [1] and I promised I'd post my article about it. This is the article. Second, I want people to understand that this is a complex issue and the solution might/should be as complex. It's not a case of, OK let's hire 20 more black people and it's over. The reality is that, well first you have to find them, and then you have to see if they qualify for a job you are actually hiring for. But one thing that anyone one here can do is get up from their chair and look around the office, you immediately notice that black people aren't there. This is what this article is doing. It's asking why? Every anecdote I brought up about treatment is something that happened to me on multiple occasions. Now I'm getting hundreds of emails with people saying "you pulled the words out of my mouth." And some examples sound innocent enough and could be interpreted in many ways. But like Joel Spolsky once said, "it's the tiny little frustration that add up"[2] and at some point you are angry and don't even know why. This is a call to be more understanding and for all of us to be aware of the challenges black people face. I don't have a solution to end racism, and I don't pretend I do. But when we all understand each other a little better, racism tend to start fading away. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23544856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23544856 [2]: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/10/controlling-your-environment-makes-you-happy/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/10/controlling-your-e... Edit: typo and my mistake, this post is not flagged as of writing.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
darkerside 6y ago
Thanks for speaking up. I don't know how to fix any of this, but I do know that we need to value each other's experiences, and that can't happen without us sharing them for what they are. Hard as it is for you, and easy as it is to say for me, I do believe your uncomfortable experiences are changing things for the better. Every VC that hurries out of a room may not have invested in your company, but you just pushed a commit to their mental blockchain that will stick with them forever. Another promising young black entrepreneur is going to get his (or her) shot _because_ you didn't get yours.
- solzhenitsyn 6y ago
  Do you want equal opportunities or equal outcomes? One does not beget the other.
  - darkerside 6y ago
    I don't believe either is possible. Life is way too complicated to guarantee anything. But I think everyone agrees we should strive to correct significant levels of unfairness in either opportunity or outcome. We just may disagree on what constitutes significance.
  - AlexTWithBeard 6y ago
    We generally want equal opportunities, but alas that sometimes produces unacceptable outcomes.
numakerg 6y ago
Thank you for writing this. If there's at least one thing I hope everyone can agree is a positive, it's people sharing their perspectives like this. > look around the office, you immediately notice that black people aren't there. You're right, there aren't. One in ten people in my city is black, but I would estimate* fewer than one in forty developers at my work are. But there were just as few in my college classes, in my tech clubs, advanced mathematics classes, and any other place that would lead a person to software development. I think we need to address the problems with diversity in those place at the same time as we deal with the workplace problems. * All the obvious caveats apply. I'm not going to project an identity onto someone else.
- komali2 6y ago
  It's not exclusionary. I have almost no say at what happens at my local University. Do you? I can at most pay taxes, write my representatives, and maybe a couple other ancillary things. What I can control to a huge degree is who my company hires and how I treat my colleagues. Seeking out how to help POC programmers in the workforce doesn't mean we can't also work to improve the American education gap. We have a lot of time in the day, after all.
  - numakerg 6y ago
    In what part of my writing did I suggest that it was exclusionary? > It's not a case of, OK let's hire 20 more black people and it's over. The reality is that, well first you have to find them, and then you have to see if they qualify for a job you are actually hiring for. I was addressing this statement from the author, suggesting that if my perception of the education system is accurate then it could be difficult to find those developers if barriers at school aren't also broken. Maybe my perception is wrong, but that's why we have discussions. > I have almost no say at what happens at my local University. Do you? I do. I am an alumni and can contribute to scholarships that fund students in underrepresented categories. As a student, I published articles supporting my (what I would consider progressive) political positions that opened up discussions but also received significant criticism. > Seeking out how to help POC programmers in the workforce doesn't mean we can't also work to improve the American education gap. We have a lot of time in the day, after all. Hopefully. I'm not American, so I can't say much. Best I can do is listen and think about what I do and say.
skrebbel 6y ago
Off topic, but I'm really impressed that "I promised I'd post my article about it" ends up as a BBC article. You talk about it like it's a Medium post! Cool stuff :-) How did you pull that off? Did you just send it in, or are you somehow connected to the BBC already? Back on topic, I can totally see those tiny little frustrations add up. Love that you're using it for good.
- ibudiallo 6y ago
  > How did you pull that off? I had written the article to post on my blog. But a couple years ago I've had many journalist contact me about my previous story linked in the article. So I called in those favors and BBC was first to respond :)
mkl 6y ago
I don't think it was flagged, except maybe as a dupe. I ran into it on the BBC site the other day and tried to post it, but someone else already had (it didn't make the front page): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23659251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23659251
- vatueil 6y ago
  Currently flagged again: https://web.archive.org/web/20200629012939/https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23669188 https://web.archive.org/web/20200629012939/https://news.ycom...
  - dang 6y ago
    Yes, that happened. We turned off the flags.
badrabbit 6y ago
Really curious what your accent is like. Also, I think it depends on which megacorp but I seen a multi-billion revenue corp with a rough majority black IT staff. Also goes the other way I guess. All I can say is I hope your bank account looks great,at the end of the day that's what a job is for.
- neonate 6y ago
  > Really curious what your accent is like. Why do you say that?
  - badrabbit 6y ago
    Cultural curiosity I suppose
perl4ever 6y ago
>you immediately notice that black people aren't there Black people in the US disproportionately live in the south-east. And they have IT jobs there. You can work where a whole department has one white guy if that. I'm not patronizing you by saying you should go do that, or that you would find it tolerable there; just that it's easy to get carried away making universal statements about how things are.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

darkerside 6y ago

Thanks for speaking up. I don't know how to fix any of this, but I do know that we need to value each other's experiences, and that can't happen without us sharing them for what they are. Hard as it is for you, and easy as it is to say for me, I do believe your uncomfortable experiences are changing things for the better. Every VC that hurries out of a room may not have invested in your company, but you just pushed a commit to their mental blockchain that will stick with them forever. Another promising young black entrepreneur is going to get his (or her) shot _because_ you didn't get yours.

solzhenitsyn 6y ago
Do you want equal opportunities or equal outcomes? One does not beget the other.
- darkerside 6y ago
  I don't believe either is possible. Life is way too complicated to guarantee anything. But I think everyone agrees we should strive to correct significant levels of unfairness in either opportunity or outcome. We just may disagree on what constitutes significance.
- AlexTWithBeard 6y ago
  We generally want equal opportunities, but alas that sometimes produces unacceptable outcomes.

numakerg 6y ago

Thank you for writing this. If there's at least one thing I hope everyone can agree is a positive, it's people sharing their perspectives like this. > look around the office, you immediately notice that black people aren't there. You're right, there aren't. One in ten people in my city is black, but I would estimate* fewer than one in forty developers at my work are. But there were just as few in my college classes, in my tech clubs, advanced mathematics classes, and any other place that would lead a person to software development. I think we need to address the problems with diversity in those place at the same time as we deal with the workplace problems. * All the obvious caveats apply. I'm not going to project an identity onto someone else.

komali2 6y ago
It's not exclusionary. I have almost no say at what happens at my local University. Do you? I can at most pay taxes, write my representatives, and maybe a couple other ancillary things. What I can control to a huge degree is who my company hires and how I treat my colleagues. Seeking out how to help POC programmers in the workforce doesn't mean we can't also work to improve the American education gap. We have a lot of time in the day, after all.
- numakerg 6y ago
  In what part of my writing did I suggest that it was exclusionary? > It's not a case of, OK let's hire 20 more black people and it's over. The reality is that, well first you have to find them, and then you have to see if they qualify for a job you are actually hiring for. I was addressing this statement from the author, suggesting that if my perception of the education system is accurate then it could be difficult to find those developers if barriers at school aren't also broken. Maybe my perception is wrong, but that's why we have discussions. > I have almost no say at what happens at my local University. Do you? I do. I am an alumni and can contribute to scholarships that fund students in underrepresented categories. As a student, I published articles supporting my (what I would consider progressive) political positions that opened up discussions but also received significant criticism. > Seeking out how to help POC programmers in the workforce doesn't mean we can't also work to improve the American education gap. We have a lot of time in the day, after all. Hopefully. I'm not American, so I can't say much. Best I can do is listen and think about what I do and say.

skrebbel 6y ago

Off topic, but I'm really impressed that "I promised I'd post my article about it" ends up as a BBC article. You talk about it like it's a Medium post! Cool stuff :-) How did you pull that off? Did you just send it in, or are you somehow connected to the BBC already? Back on topic, I can totally see those tiny little frustrations add up. Love that you're using it for good.

ibudiallo 6y ago
> How did you pull that off? I had written the article to post on my blog. But a couple years ago I've had many journalist contact me about my previous story linked in the article. So I called in those favors and BBC was first to respond :)

mkl 6y ago

I don't think it was flagged, except maybe as a dupe. I ran into it on the BBC site the other day and tried to post it, but someone else already had (it didn't make the front page): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23659251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23659251

vatueil 6y ago
Currently flagged again: https://web.archive.org/web/20200629012939/https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23669188 https://web.archive.org/web/20200629012939/https://news.ycom...
- dang 6y ago
  Yes, that happened. We turned off the flags.

badrabbit 6y ago

Really curious what your accent is like. Also, I think it depends on which megacorp but I seen a multi-billion revenue corp with a rough majority black IT staff. Also goes the other way I guess. All I can say is I hope your bank account looks great,at the end of the day that's what a job is for.

neonate 6y ago
> Really curious what your accent is like. Why do you say that?
- badrabbit 6y ago
  Cultural curiosity I suppose

perl4ever 6y ago

>you immediately notice that black people aren't there Black people in the US disproportionately live in the south-east. And they have IT jobs there. You can work where a whole department has one white guy if that. I'm not patronizing you by saying you should go do that, or that you would find it tolerable there; just that it's easy to get carried away making universal statements about how things are.