4 ms·

Mike Duncan, the history author/podcaster once said something like "I've learned to never call something the first, last, greatest, anything like that, you'll a

Mike Duncan, the history author/podcaster once said something like "I've learned to never call something the first, last, greatest, anything like that, you'll always be wrong and get hundreds of comments and emails. just qualify it. One of the earliest" I think it was in his 1830/France season of revolutions (6).

sn41 6y ago
Yep. "As far as we know..." is usually required as a qualification.
- hnlmorg 6y ago
  I don't think the problem is a lack research. I think the problem is that terms describing art are often subjective and few things are built without having inspiration. People who write games play games and get inspired by other games they've liked. So while someone might declare something being a first in a genre, someone else might say "this earlier game is similar enough to that genre that it still counts". It also doesn't help that 3D is such a (mis|over)used term that it can apply to a broad range of different styles that are worlds apart from one another (as I describe in more detail here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23668287 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23668287)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
prvc 6y ago
This is an effective time-saving device for an individual, certainly, but taking this strategy to an extreme leads one to hedge your statements away into nothingness. Some questions are worth discussing (what the first x is may or may not be), if not always because of their intrinsic importance, then because of details and insights that emerge from the ensuing discussion.
- kristopolous 6y ago
  It's often distraction. If someone was talking about the Xerox star as the first desktop computer, then someone interrupted with talking about the hp 9100a, it's kinda derailment. The point is it was one of the first to it still had to establish a lot of things What people mean is "before it was an established thing" "before parameters were known" or "after it was an established thing" Like "tallest building" what they mean is "challenging to construct vertical structure that needed special considerations" It's mostly used figuratively as a narrative backdrop like it is here and not as some indisputable factoid
  - LocalH 6y ago
    I disagree respectfully. I feel that if one is going to be documenting or discussing "the very first" of something, then it should actually be documented as the very first. I prefer the term "first known" or "first documented" when it comes to something with as spotty a recorded history as video gaming. For years, people thought Warren Robinett had made the first video game easter egg in Adventure for the 2600. Turns out there have been three other contenders for that title. The first contender was Video Whizball on the Fairchild Channel F, from 1978. [1] In 2017, Ed Fries learned of the existence of an egg in the 1977 Atari arcade game Starship 1, and did the legwork to determine a more accurate release date, as well as the egg's trigger method. He dated it to August 13, 1977 (release date, so egg would have existed prior to that date while in development and production). [2] Guinness even currently recognizes the Starship 1 egg as the first known video game easter egg [3]. While this is currently the first known arcade game easter egg (therefore Ed Fries' claim is accurate), there was an even earlier egg found in Spitfire on the Channel F. Someone even found a newspaper ad claiming Spitfire was available for purchase on April 16, 1977, making it the earliest known video game easter egg. [4] And with that I have spent way too much time putting together an HN comment lol [1] http://www.digitpress.com/eastereggs/cfvideowhizball.htm http://www.digitpress.com/eastereggs/cfvideowhizball.htm [2] https://edfries.wordpress.com/2017/03/22/chasing-the-first-arcade-easter-egg/ https://edfries.wordpress.com/2017/03/22/chasing-the-first-a... [3] https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/117435-first-videogame-easter-egg https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/117435-fi... [4] https://web.archive.org/web/20200524234421/https://selectbutton.net/t/i-found-an-easter-egg-from-1977/8828 https://web.archive.org/web/20200524234421/https://selectbut...

sn41 6y ago

Yep. "As far as we know..." is usually required as a qualification.

hnlmorg 6y ago
I don't think the problem is a lack research. I think the problem is that terms describing art are often subjective and few things are built without having inspiration. People who write games play games and get inspired by other games they've liked. So while someone might declare something being a first in a genre, someone else might say "this earlier game is similar enough to that genre that it still counts". It also doesn't help that 3D is such a (mis|over)used term that it can apply to a broad range of different styles that are worlds apart from one another (as I describe in more detail here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23668287 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23668287)

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

prvc 6y ago

This is an effective time-saving device for an individual, certainly, but taking this strategy to an extreme leads one to hedge your statements away into nothingness. Some questions are worth discussing (what the first x is may or may not be), if not always because of their intrinsic importance, then because of details and insights that emerge from the ensuing discussion.

kristopolous 6y ago
It's often distraction. If someone was talking about the Xerox star as the first desktop computer, then someone interrupted with talking about the hp 9100a, it's kinda derailment. The point is it was one of the first to it still had to establish a lot of things What people mean is "before it was an established thing" "before parameters were known" or "after it was an established thing" Like "tallest building" what they mean is "challenging to construct vertical structure that needed special considerations" It's mostly used figuratively as a narrative backdrop like it is here and not as some indisputable factoid
- LocalH 6y ago
  I disagree respectfully. I feel that if one is going to be documenting or discussing "the very first" of something, then it should actually be documented as the very first. I prefer the term "first known" or "first documented" when it comes to something with as spotty a recorded history as video gaming. For years, people thought Warren Robinett had made the first video game easter egg in Adventure for the 2600. Turns out there have been three other contenders for that title. The first contender was Video Whizball on the Fairchild Channel F, from 1978. [1] In 2017, Ed Fries learned of the existence of an egg in the 1977 Atari arcade game Starship 1, and did the legwork to determine a more accurate release date, as well as the egg's trigger method. He dated it to August 13, 1977 (release date, so egg would have existed prior to that date while in development and production). [2] Guinness even currently recognizes the Starship 1 egg as the first known video game easter egg [3]. While this is currently the first known arcade game easter egg (therefore Ed Fries' claim is accurate), there was an even earlier egg found in Spitfire on the Channel F. Someone even found a newspaper ad claiming Spitfire was available for purchase on April 16, 1977, making it the earliest known video game easter egg. [4] And with that I have spent way too much time putting together an HN comment lol [1] http://www.digitpress.com/eastereggs/cfvideowhizball.htm http://www.digitpress.com/eastereggs/cfvideowhizball.htm [2] https://edfries.wordpress.com/2017/03/22/chasing-the-first-arcade-easter-egg/ https://edfries.wordpress.com/2017/03/22/chasing-the-first-a... [3] https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/117435-first-videogame-easter-egg https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/117435-fi... [4] https://web.archive.org/web/20200524234421/https://selectbutton.net/t/i-found-an-easter-egg-from-1977/8828 https://web.archive.org/web/20200524234421/https://selectbut...