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> "Can you even imagine if we spent 80-90% of our income on essential needs?" most american households (as in >50%) do spend 80-90% (or more) on essential need

> "Can you even imagine if we spent 80-90% of our income on essential needs?" most american households (as in >50%) do spend 80-90% (or more) on essential needs.

Exmoor 6y ago
You may very well be right, but I'd be curious if you have a source for that?
- sushshshsh 6y ago
  Most of these things seem quite essential and aren't cash in the bank equivalents (pension is debatable) https://images.app.goo.gl/HLGya1YkFJ5vv5oS8 https://images.app.goo.gl/HLGya1YkFJ5vv5oS8
  - ajzinsbwbs 6y ago
    If you think about which of the industries in that chart are partially or fully shut down, it seems pretty consistent with the 14% unemployment we got.
- edoceo 6y ago
  Piketty has a book called Capital in the 21st Century, which makes similar statements and has pointers to his reference material here: http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/en/capital21c2 http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/en/capital21c2 Also, it's a good book.
twblalock 6y ago
In the early 1900s most American households spent 80% of their income on food, clothing, and housing -- and the food was by far the largest expense, more than housing. The picture for American families today is much better. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/how-america-spends-money-100-years-in-the-life-of-the-family-budget/255475/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/how-ame...
- claudeganon 6y ago
  This data seems to stop in 2003, before Great Recession and the massive increase in housing costs in urban centers. Also doesn’t seem to take into account the dramatic increases in healthcare costs in the intervening years. I’m not sure how useful it is as a measure?
  - twblalock 6y ago
    Do you honestly believe that modern households, even after the Great Recession, spend more on food than housing? Come up with better data if you don't like mine.
    - claudeganon 6y ago
      No? I think that housing prices as a percentage of income have increased since then and are trending worse for younger generations, which a quick google suggests is true: https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/Harvard_JCHS_Americas_Rental_Housing_2020.pdf https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/Harvard_JCH... https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/real-estate/2018/05/18/millennials-spend-large-percentage-income-rent/609061002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/real-es... The late 90s (just before this study ends) were also one of the last periods of meaningful wage growth. So combined with, again, a lack of consideration about things like rising healthcare costs, it’s difficult to view this study as relevant or meaningful. And especially when the data ends before the now two largest downturns since the Great Depression.
    - geofft 6y ago
      I don't think anyone's claiming anything about the relative spending on food and housing, nor that it has any bearing on the matter under discussion - I think the claim is that total spending on "essential needs" has remained fairly high and has not become "much better." According to the article you linked, while food, housing, and clothing are now only about 50% of your budget instead of 80%, there's also about 20% on transportation costs, which didn't show up in the 1900 figure. I think those also count as "essential needs." Things are better than in the early 1900s, but not by very much.

> "Can you even imagine if we spent 80-90% of our income on essential needs?" most american households (as in >50%) do spend 80-90% (or more) on essential needs.

Exmoor 6y ago

You may very well be right, but I'd be curious if you have a source for that?

sushshshsh 6y ago
Most of these things seem quite essential and aren't cash in the bank equivalents (pension is debatable) https://images.app.goo.gl/HLGya1YkFJ5vv5oS8 https://images.app.goo.gl/HLGya1YkFJ5vv5oS8
- ajzinsbwbs 6y ago
  If you think about which of the industries in that chart are partially or fully shut down, it seems pretty consistent with the 14% unemployment we got.
edoceo 6y ago
Piketty has a book called Capital in the 21st Century, which makes similar statements and has pointers to his reference material here: http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/en/capital21c2 http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/en/capital21c2 Also, it's a good book.

twblalock 6y ago

In the early 1900s most American households spent 80% of their income on food, clothing, and housing -- and the food was by far the largest expense, more than housing. The picture for American families today is much better. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/how-america-spends-money-100-years-in-the-life-of-the-family-budget/255475/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/how-ame...

claudeganon 6y ago
This data seems to stop in 2003, before Great Recession and the massive increase in housing costs in urban centers. Also doesn’t seem to take into account the dramatic increases in healthcare costs in the intervening years. I’m not sure how useful it is as a measure?
- twblalock 6y ago
  Do you honestly believe that modern households, even after the Great Recession, spend more on food than housing? Come up with better data if you don't like mine.
  - claudeganon 6y ago
    No? I think that housing prices as a percentage of income have increased since then and are trending worse for younger generations, which a quick google suggests is true: https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/Harvard_JCHS_Americas_Rental_Housing_2020.pdf https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/Harvard_JCH... https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/real-estate/2018/05/18/millennials-spend-large-percentage-income-rent/609061002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/real-es... The late 90s (just before this study ends) were also one of the last periods of meaningful wage growth. So combined with, again, a lack of consideration about things like rising healthcare costs, it’s difficult to view this study as relevant or meaningful. And especially when the data ends before the now two largest downturns since the Great Depression.
  - geofft 6y ago
    I don't think anyone's claiming anything about the relative spending on food and housing, nor that it has any bearing on the matter under discussion - I think the claim is that total spending on "essential needs" has remained fairly high and has not become "much better." According to the article you linked, while food, housing, and clothing are now only about 50% of your budget instead of 80%, there's also about 20% on transportation costs, which didn't show up in the 1900 figure. I think those also count as "essential needs." Things are better than in the early 1900s, but not by very much.