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For anyone reading this. Sorry for no references, but it should be known (contrary the attention given by Hollywood etc) that SSR, if I'm not mistaken, did weak

For anyone reading this. Sorry for no references, but it should be known (contrary the attention given by Hollywood etc) that SSR, if I'm not mistaken, did weaken Hitler before D day significantly, and were the ones turning the tide for the Russians. They also lost and killed a LOT more than the allied troops. Partly because they were more reckless with men (considered less worth compared to the allied mindset), but also because they fought more. Then, could they have won alone? No idea. Nobody knows of course. Don't buy the Hollywood perspective on WW2 without first considering that it's far from the full picture. For example, China/Japan details are not as well known in western world, but a significant situation and part of the conflict with lots of people killed, which also happened before 1939 partly. As always, it's more complicated...

celticninja 6y ago
It's not unknown that taking on Russia stretched Nazi Germany's resources. However it is also known that between 1939 and 1941 Russia and Germany had an accord and were allies. That was until Germany invaded russia is 1941. So the German army that invaded russia in 1941 had already been fighting Britain and the allied forces for 2 years, significantly weakening them and stretching their resources.
- gdy 6y ago
  "between 1939 and 1941 Russia and Germany had an accord and were allies" That's false. Russia and Germany had a non-aggression pact. Also you should read about the Munich Agreement[0], that preceded the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and clearly shown that no one was willing to fight Germany and protect Czechoslovakia besides the USSR. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement
  - celticninja 6y ago
    You say potato...
    - gdy 6y ago
      You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. The fact is that the USSR and Germany signed a non-aggression pact, not a treaty of alliance. You can read the text [0] yourself and see that there is nothing resembling a war alliance. [0] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pa...
      - eveningcoffee 6y ago
        I clearly looks like an alliance to take over other countries. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#Secret_Additional_Protocol https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pa... They even divided Poland in a coordinated attack on two fronts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military... It is not the name that matters but content and actions.
        sergeykish 6y ago
        Oh, the start of the war was awful in so many aspects, there were no rights. Second Polish Republic was aggressive state [1], [2]. It partitioned Czechoslovakia with Germany and Hungary in 1938. Soviets border on Poland lies about what was defined in Treaty of Versailles [3]. It does not excuse anything just show mixed things were. Have no idea about other parts of the German Soviet border [4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_border_conflicts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_bo... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Border_and_Commercial_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Border_a...
        gdy 6y ago
        Have you actually read the content?
  - sergeykish 6y ago
    Can we agree that both Germany and USSR gained territories as result [1], [2]? And they were trade partners [3]? And, yes, France and UK helped that to happen. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_state... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Credit_Agreement_(1939) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Credit_A...
    - gdy 6y ago
      The USSR gained so much needed strategic depth, the Germany gained Lebensraum. Which country wasn't trading with Nazi Germany?
      - sergeykish 6y ago
        "Germany gained so much needed strategic depth" - somehow Germany evil, USSR not - flawed logic
        gdy 6y ago
        You are welcome to present a Soviet equivalent of the Lebensraum concept.
        sergeykish 6y ago
        Gulag [1], Purges [2], man made famine [3], restriction of movement [4], population as means for World Revolution [5], imperialism [6]. Bolsheviks were terrorists [7], the state evolved from terrorists organisation. It should be shamed just as we shame Fascists. Meanwhile in Russia Stalin popularity is record high [8]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%93... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport_system_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport_system_in_the_Soviet_... [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_revolution [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Empire [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror [8] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47975704 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47975704
sergeykish 6y ago
Have you red it? My point by marshal USSR Georgy Zhukov on Moscow Victory Parade of 1945 [1]: > By the combined efforts of the great powers of the USSR, USA, UK fascist Germany was defeated in the ashes That victory was rebirth of USSR. Heroes returned home, no way to rule them as before. But wounds were not allowed to heal, 9 May become day of "we were attacked, still plenty of enemies around". Russians, Czechs, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Georgians, Moldovan (and many others) fought together. USSR attacked Czechoslovakia, Russia attacked Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine. Somehow your counterexample is loss and contribution. I never said there was not. > "turning the tide for the Russians^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H USSR" By USSR census Russians 53%, Ukrainians 21%, even Slavs would be incorrect - 78%. Census 1937 [3] was not published because of the man-made famine [4] consequences. Official position - there was no such thing. Hardly anyone knows about occupation of Poland [5], Baltic states [6] and War with Finland [7]. Could they have won war alone? No. Germans occupied a lot of industrial territories with Blitzkrieg, not enough time to restart factories [8]. Without support there would be no Moscow and Stalingrad. There would be guerilla war but that's not enough. Back to topic. In Russia it is believed that after taking Berlin soldiers should have fought Allies. That's liberation war for you. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gzZoVm-joc&t=20m23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gzZoVm-joc&t=20m23s [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1926) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1926) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939%E2%80%931945) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939%E2%... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_state... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_in_the_Soviet_Union
- andrea_s 6y ago
  > Back to topic. In Russia it is believed that after taking Berlin soldiers should have fought Allies. That's liberation war for you. And they were not the only ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable

celticninja 6y ago

It's not unknown that taking on Russia stretched Nazi Germany's resources. However it is also known that between 1939 and 1941 Russia and Germany had an accord and were allies. That was until Germany invaded russia is 1941. So the German army that invaded russia in 1941 had already been fighting Britain and the allied forces for 2 years, significantly weakening them and stretching their resources.

gdy 6y ago
"between 1939 and 1941 Russia and Germany had an accord and were allies" That's false. Russia and Germany had a non-aggression pact. Also you should read about the Munich Agreement[0], that preceded the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and clearly shown that no one was willing to fight Germany and protect Czechoslovakia besides the USSR. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement
- celticninja 6y ago
  You say potato...
  - gdy 6y ago
    You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. The fact is that the USSR and Germany signed a non-aggression pact, not a treaty of alliance. You can read the text [0] yourself and see that there is nothing resembling a war alliance. [0] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pa...
    - eveningcoffee 6y ago
      I clearly looks like an alliance to take over other countries. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#Secret_Additional_Protocol https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pa... They even divided Poland in a coordinated attack on two fronts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military... It is not the name that matters but content and actions.
      - sergeykish 6y ago
        Oh, the start of the war was awful in so many aspects, there were no rights. Second Polish Republic was aggressive state [1], [2]. It partitioned Czechoslovakia with Germany and Hungary in 1938. Soviets border on Poland lies about what was defined in Treaty of Versailles [3]. It does not excuse anything just show mixed things were. Have no idea about other parts of the German Soviet border [4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_border_conflicts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_bo... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Border_and_Commercial_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Border_a...
      - gdy 6y ago
        Have you actually read the content?
- sergeykish 6y ago
  Can we agree that both Germany and USSR gained territories as result [1], [2]? And they were trade partners [3]? And, yes, France and UK helped that to happen. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_state... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Credit_Agreement_(1939) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Credit_A...
  - gdy 6y ago
    The USSR gained so much needed strategic depth, the Germany gained Lebensraum. Which country wasn't trading with Nazi Germany?
    - sergeykish 6y ago
      "Germany gained so much needed strategic depth" - somehow Germany evil, USSR not - flawed logic
      - gdy 6y ago
        You are welcome to present a Soviet equivalent of the Lebensraum concept.
        sergeykish 6y ago
        Gulag [1], Purges [2], man made famine [3], restriction of movement [4], population as means for World Revolution [5], imperialism [6]. Bolsheviks were terrorists [7], the state evolved from terrorists organisation. It should be shamed just as we shame Fascists. Meanwhile in Russia Stalin popularity is record high [8]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%93... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport_system_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport_system_in_the_Soviet_... [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_revolution [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Empire [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror [8] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47975704 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47975704

sergeykish 6y ago

Have you red it? My point by marshal USSR Georgy Zhukov on Moscow Victory Parade of 1945 [1]: > By the combined efforts of the great powers of the USSR, USA, UK fascist Germany was defeated in the ashes That victory was rebirth of USSR. Heroes returned home, no way to rule them as before. But wounds were not allowed to heal, 9 May become day of "we were attacked, still plenty of enemies around". Russians, Czechs, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Georgians, Moldovan (and many others) fought together. USSR attacked Czechoslovakia, Russia attacked Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine. Somehow your counterexample is loss and contribution. I never said there was not. > "turning the tide for the Russians^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H USSR" By USSR census Russians 53%, Ukrainians 21%, even Slavs would be incorrect - 78%. Census 1937 [3] was not published because of the man-made famine [4] consequences. Official position - there was no such thing. Hardly anyone knows about occupation of Poland [5], Baltic states [6] and War with Finland [7]. Could they have won war alone? No. Germans occupied a lot of industrial territories with Blitzkrieg, not enough time to restart factories [8]. Without support there would be no Moscow and Stalingrad. There would be guerilla war but that's not enough. Back to topic. In Russia it is believed that after taking Berlin soldiers should have fought Allies. That's liberation war for you. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gzZoVm-joc&t=20m23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gzZoVm-joc&t=20m23s [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1926) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1926) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939%E2%80%931945) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939%E2%... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_state... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_in_the_Soviet_Union

andrea_s 6y ago
> Back to topic. In Russia it is believed that after taking Berlin soldiers should have fought Allies. That's liberation war for you. And they were not the only ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable