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Exactly correct. I would go a bit further even though: not only is it possible to deliberately engineer the way the economy functions to achieve specific goals

Exactly correct. I would go a bit further even though: not only is it possible to deliberately engineer the way the economy functions to achieve specific goals, but this has already been done and the supposedly naturally self designed, self regulated free market economy is anything but. Rather it has been engineered to benefit someone, it’s just not you and me but a small percentage of excessively rich people.

twblalock 6y ago
You're kidding, right? This "engineering" of the economy has put tens of millions of people out of work and destroyed many small and medium businesses, and that was only after a couple of months! Imagine how bad things would be if we locked down for an entire year.
- geofft 6y ago
  I think you're misreading the comment - the person you're responding to is claiming that the engineering of the economy started way more than a couple of months ago.
  - twblalock 6y ago
    I read it right. It's a conspiracy theory about capitalism deployed as proof that "engineering" of the economy works, despite the obvious fact that the past few months of "engineering" have destroyed businesses and ruined many lives. The "self designed, self regulated free market economy" which the OP insinuated is a myth or a lie is actually the only reason the economy still functions. Businesses didn't shift to remote work and radically alter their supply chains in record time because some government central planner told them to.
    - fallingfrog 6y ago
      I’m not talking about conspiracy theories, just mundane things like like urban planning, real estate and industry lobbying, choices about policing and who makes them, I mean just check how many members of your local city council were funded by the chamber of commerce. There’s no conspiracy, it’s all done right out in the open. Why do we drive cars instead of taking mass transit everywhere? Because the big auto companies lobbied to make it that way. Why do real estate prices keep on rising? Because the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac interfere with loan pricing. You don’t think all this stuff just happens, do you? Most of the laws governing the financial sector were directly written by lobbyists working in that sector. Most of the new technology, the basic research that happens, is funded by the federal government. And then handed off to corporations in the private sector who happen to fund political campaigns. It’s not some secretive cabal or some silly thing like that. It’s just how business is done. The whole economy is like that. Somebody made each choice. It was somebody who had a stake in the outcome, somebody with money.
      - geofft 6y ago
        By the way, I really liked this article that was posted here couple weeks ago about how the USDA has been leading a battle against an entire species of worms - and has quite successfully driven them to a defensive line they maintain in Panama - for the sake of the cattle industry: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-eating-worms-disease-containment-america-panama/611026/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-ea... Nothing hidden, but unquestionably central planning on the part of multiple governments.
    - geofft 6y ago
      The comment would make as much sense if it were made in December 2019 - it has nothing to do with the last few months. The comment was also about engineering, not micromanaging. When a civil engineer designs a bridge to resist vibrations and avoid resonance, the civil engineer is not personally damping the bridge every time a car drives over. They've simply designed the bridge so it does what's wanted. There's no government central planner telling business what to do, but there are absolutely a number of government planners setting up the conditions under which businesses operate.

twblalock 6y ago

You're kidding, right? This "engineering" of the economy has put tens of millions of people out of work and destroyed many small and medium businesses, and that was only after a couple of months! Imagine how bad things would be if we locked down for an entire year.

geofft 6y ago
I think you're misreading the comment - the person you're responding to is claiming that the engineering of the economy started way more than a couple of months ago.
- twblalock 6y ago
  I read it right. It's a conspiracy theory about capitalism deployed as proof that "engineering" of the economy works, despite the obvious fact that the past few months of "engineering" have destroyed businesses and ruined many lives. The "self designed, self regulated free market economy" which the OP insinuated is a myth or a lie is actually the only reason the economy still functions. Businesses didn't shift to remote work and radically alter their supply chains in record time because some government central planner told them to.
  - fallingfrog 6y ago
    I’m not talking about conspiracy theories, just mundane things like like urban planning, real estate and industry lobbying, choices about policing and who makes them, I mean just check how many members of your local city council were funded by the chamber of commerce. There’s no conspiracy, it’s all done right out in the open. Why do we drive cars instead of taking mass transit everywhere? Because the big auto companies lobbied to make it that way. Why do real estate prices keep on rising? Because the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac interfere with loan pricing. You don’t think all this stuff just happens, do you? Most of the laws governing the financial sector were directly written by lobbyists working in that sector. Most of the new technology, the basic research that happens, is funded by the federal government. And then handed off to corporations in the private sector who happen to fund political campaigns. It’s not some secretive cabal or some silly thing like that. It’s just how business is done. The whole economy is like that. Somebody made each choice. It was somebody who had a stake in the outcome, somebody with money.
    - geofft 6y ago
      By the way, I really liked this article that was posted here couple weeks ago about how the USDA has been leading a battle against an entire species of worms - and has quite successfully driven them to a defensive line they maintain in Panama - for the sake of the cattle industry: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-eating-worms-disease-containment-america-panama/611026/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-ea... Nothing hidden, but unquestionably central planning on the part of multiple governments.
  - geofft 6y ago
    The comment would make as much sense if it were made in December 2019 - it has nothing to do with the last few months. The comment was also about engineering, not micromanaging. When a civil engineer designs a bridge to resist vibrations and avoid resonance, the civil engineer is not personally damping the bridge every time a car drives over. They've simply designed the bridge so it does what's wanted. There's no government central planner telling business what to do, but there are absolutely a number of government planners setting up the conditions under which businesses operate.