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This was solving problems nobody really has, so its fate was predictable. Here's what I think could take off like a rocket: a VSCode-like experience that runs c

by m0zg 6y ago

This was solving problems nobody really has, so its fate was predictable. Here's what I think could take off like a rocket: a VSCode-like experience that runs completely in terminal, and therefore does not require a "remote" of any kind. Better yet if it takes most of the same plugins, to reuse the immense amount of work people have done there (and are not going to re-do for some hotshot new editor). Note how none of the above mentions "async", "ropes" or "crdt".

saagarjha 6y ago
I think it had a lot of goals that matched I'd like from my text editor: * Using native technologies * Fast * Modular and extensible * Open source
- m0zg 6y ago
  And I'm not disputing that. But one goal eclipses all others: * Usable
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    That is correct, hence why I never used Xi. But if it did end up usable I could imagine myself switching to it.
Arnavion 6y ago
I don't want to speak too much for raphlinus here [1], but I don't think it was ever the goal to make an editor that gets a lot of downloads like a startup pitching a product. All the things you've listed are non-goals, or at least lower-priority goals. The goal was to make an editor based on sound technology principles, and that included investigating said technology principles. It turned out some of those principles were bad ideas, and that's that. [1]: My involvement with xi was limited to being part of conversations he had about rendering performance on Windows in the winapi crate's IRC channel.
- raphlinus 6y ago
  This is a bit complicated. My main goal was to make something good. I would have liked it to be so good that lots of people would use it, but I wasn't optimizing for popularity, and, indeed, had I been, I would have done quite a few things very differently. Also, thanks for those early winapi discussions. The attitude of Rust towards winapi is one of the early reasons I started seeing Rust as being viable for actually building GUI.
- rvz 6y ago
  That's a long way of saying it's a 'research project' or an 'experimental text editor' written in Rust.
__s 6y ago
What you're asking for exists: https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim
- BooneJS 6y ago
  "Step 1: Install NodeJS" I think what got people excited about Xi with Ropes and CRDT and Rust was that it was going to be a modern codebase with performance. Now that Moore's Law is buried next to Denard scaling, we need less software written with time-to-MVP in mind and more software written with performance in mind. Software is used a lot more than it's created. If I looked at editors like emacs and vi/vim/neovim, and tried to calculate the person-decades spent making them vs. the person-millennia spent using it, it's quite clear that optimizing for the single-core performance we have today pays off tomorrow when singe-core performance is 10% faster.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

by m0zg 6y ago

saagarjha 6y ago

I think it had a lot of goals that matched I'd like from my text editor: * Using native technologies * Fast * Modular and extensible * Open source

m0zg 6y ago
And I'm not disputing that. But one goal eclipses all others: * Usable
- saagarjha 6y ago
  That is correct, hence why I never used Xi. But if it did end up usable I could imagine myself switching to it.

Arnavion 6y ago

I don't want to speak too much for raphlinus here [1], but I don't think it was ever the goal to make an editor that gets a lot of downloads like a startup pitching a product. All the things you've listed are non-goals, or at least lower-priority goals. The goal was to make an editor based on sound technology principles, and that included investigating said technology principles. It turned out some of those principles were bad ideas, and that's that. [1]: My involvement with xi was limited to being part of conversations he had about rendering performance on Windows in the winapi crate's IRC channel.

raphlinus 6y ago
This is a bit complicated. My main goal was to make something good. I would have liked it to be so good that lots of people would use it, but I wasn't optimizing for popularity, and, indeed, had I been, I would have done quite a few things very differently. Also, thanks for those early winapi discussions. The attitude of Rust towards winapi is one of the early reasons I started seeing Rust as being viable for actually building GUI.
rvz 6y ago
That's a long way of saying it's a 'research project' or an 'experimental text editor' written in Rust.

__s 6y ago

What you're asking for exists: https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim

BooneJS 6y ago
"Step 1: Install NodeJS" I think what got people excited about Xi with Ropes and CRDT and Rust was that it was going to be a modern codebase with performance. Now that Moore's Law is buried next to Denard scaling, we need less software written with time-to-MVP in mind and more software written with performance in mind. Software is used a lot more than it's created. If I looked at editors like emacs and vi/vim/neovim, and tried to calculate the person-decades spent making them vs. the person-millennia spent using it, it's quite clear that optimizing for the single-core performance we have today pays off tomorrow when singe-core performance is 10% faster.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]