5 ms·

Racial inequality is a huge problem in the United States. If a few innocent people get fired, that's tiny compared to the injustice that Black people have suffe

Racial inequality is a huge problem in the United States. If a few innocent people get fired, that's tiny compared to the injustice that Black people have suffered over the past centuries. So if fighting racial inequality means a few innocent people get fired, then that would be a small price to pay. But I worry that the long-term cost of this tactic is much bigger than "a few innocent people get fired". I really want Biden to win the 2020 election. But for that to happen, the Democrats will need support from swing voters. When innocent people get fired, this scares and alienates swing voters, and they'll be more likely to vote Republican. I worry that this kind of thing will result in another four years of Trump. And in the long term, it's not just about swing voters, but also about the 40%+ of the US that consistently votes Republican. We'll never have real equality and peace if 40%+ of the US isn't on board. I truly believe it's possible to change conservatives' minds: polls find widespread support for police reform even among people who identify as Republican [1], and Republican support for gay marriage increased from 16% to 49% over the past few decades [2]. But when innocent people get fired, that's going to make conservatives scared, and they're going to push back by turning out to vote for Trump, and by nominating more extreme candidates in future Republican primaries. So we should fight for racial equality in ways that don't antagonize conservatives any more than necessary. Of course, it's inevitable that fighting for progress will antagonize conservatives to _some_ extent; but we should try to minimize this when we can. So the real cost of firing innocent people is that it alienates swing voters, and also antagonizes conservatives and hardens their resolve. That's _not_ a small price to pay. We should make a real effort to avoid firing innocent people, and when it does happen, we should express regret instead of doubling down. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-poll-exclusive-idUSKBN23I380 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-poll-e... [2] https://news.gallup.com/poll/311672/support-sex-marriage-matches-record-high.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/311672/support-sex-marriage-mat...

gentleman11 6y ago
I disagree. The real cost of firing innocent people is that justice is overridden by mob rule and political trends. It isn’t acceptable to “sacrifice” a small population for the sake of another in this way, an incredible amount of evil has been done with those sorts of justifications, and usually to some minority
rectang 6y ago
There will never be a good time to act. We can't act now because there's an election coming up. We can't act in January 2021 because red-state Democratic Senators can't spend all their political capital on this one issue. We can't act in July 2021 because we need to focus on COVID and the economy. We can't act in 2022 because an election is coming up. We can't act in 2023 because Republicans regained control of the Senate. We will never act.
- a_puppy 6y ago
  You completely misunderstood me. I'm not saying "now's the wrong time to act". If the action is good (like firing white supremacists) then we should act now and keep acting until the problem is fixed. But firing innocent people is not a good way to act! Not now, and not ever. And the costs of firing innocent people are bigger than just "a few people have to find a new job".
  - rectang 6y ago
    I don't doubt your good intentions, but read your own message. Who is more important? The "swing voters" and Republicans who it is unacceptable to offend or the minorities you claim to want to help? When the chips are down, Democrats betray their allies rather than offend bigots.
    - a_puppy 6y ago
      Obviously, it's more important to help minorities than to avoid antagonizing people. But avoiding antagonizing people is still important, even if it's not _as_ important. So my point is that we should avoid _unnecessarily_ antagonizing people. When innocent people get fired, that doesn't help minorities at all; but it does unnecessarily antagonize people, which can cause serious harm in the long run.

gentleman11 6y ago

I disagree. The real cost of firing innocent people is that justice is overridden by mob rule and political trends. It isn’t acceptable to “sacrifice” a small population for the sake of another in this way, an incredible amount of evil has been done with those sorts of justifications, and usually to some minority

rectang 6y ago

There will never be a good time to act. We can't act now because there's an election coming up. We can't act in January 2021 because red-state Democratic Senators can't spend all their political capital on this one issue. We can't act in July 2021 because we need to focus on COVID and the economy. We can't act in 2022 because an election is coming up. We can't act in 2023 because Republicans regained control of the Senate. We will never act.

a_puppy 6y ago
You completely misunderstood me. I'm not saying "now's the wrong time to act". If the action is good (like firing white supremacists) then we should act now and keep acting until the problem is fixed. But firing innocent people is not a good way to act! Not now, and not ever. And the costs of firing innocent people are bigger than just "a few people have to find a new job".
- rectang 6y ago
  I don't doubt your good intentions, but read your own message. Who is more important? The "swing voters" and Republicans who it is unacceptable to offend or the minorities you claim to want to help? When the chips are down, Democrats betray their allies rather than offend bigots.
  - a_puppy 6y ago
    Obviously, it's more important to help minorities than to avoid antagonizing people. But avoiding antagonizing people is still important, even if it's not _as_ important. So my point is that we should avoid _unnecessarily_ antagonizing people. When innocent people get fired, that doesn't help minorities at all; but it does unnecessarily antagonize people, which can cause serious harm in the long run.