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They believe USSR won WW2 by itself - there was no war before June 1941, no Lend-Lease, without Allies they would seize entire Europe. And no, not free, no self

They believe USSR won WW2 by itself - there was no war before June 1941, no Lend-Lease, without Allies they would seize entire Europe. And no, not free, no self determination allowed [1]. Then they would certainly beat Japan by themself - it is just an island. Afghanistan was another territory that could be ours. Putin plays on ideology created by USSR. Lie, lie, nothing but lie. Bolsheviks invented a lot in terrorism. It takes century to unfold. ISIS followed same book [2]. Sorry to bring it here, it is awful they want to start it again. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring [2] https://www.russiamatters.org/analysis/islamic-state-and-bolsheviks-plenty-common-and-lessons-heed https://www.russiamatters.org/analysis/islamic-state-and-bol...

cjblomqvist 6y ago
For anyone reading this. Sorry for no references, but it should be known (contrary the attention given by Hollywood etc) that SSR, if I'm not mistaken, did weaken Hitler before D day significantly, and were the ones turning the tide for the Russians. They also lost and killed a LOT more than the allied troops. Partly because they were more reckless with men (considered less worth compared to the allied mindset), but also because they fought more. Then, could they have won alone? No idea. Nobody knows of course. Don't buy the Hollywood perspective on WW2 without first considering that it's far from the full picture. For example, China/Japan details are not as well known in western world, but a significant situation and part of the conflict with lots of people killed, which also happened before 1939 partly. As always, it's more complicated...
- celticninja 6y ago
  It's not unknown that taking on Russia stretched Nazi Germany's resources. However it is also known that between 1939 and 1941 Russia and Germany had an accord and were allies. That was until Germany invaded russia is 1941. So the German army that invaded russia in 1941 had already been fighting Britain and the allied forces for 2 years, significantly weakening them and stretching their resources.
  - gdy 6y ago
    "between 1939 and 1941 Russia and Germany had an accord and were allies" That's false. Russia and Germany had a non-aggression pact. Also you should read about the Munich Agreement[0], that preceded the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and clearly shown that no one was willing to fight Germany and protect Czechoslovakia besides the USSR. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement
    - celticninja 6y ago
      You say potato...
      - gdy 6y ago
        You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. The fact is that the USSR and Germany signed a non-aggression pact, not a treaty of alliance. You can read the text [0] yourself and see that there is nothing resembling a war alliance. [0] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pa...
        eveningcoffee 6y ago
        I clearly looks like an alliance to take over other countries. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#Secret_Additional_Protocol https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pa... They even divided Poland in a coordinated attack on two fronts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military... It is not the name that matters but content and actions.
        sergeykish 6y ago
        Oh, the start of the war was awful in so many aspects, there were no rights. Second Polish Republic was aggressive state [1], [2]. It partitioned Czechoslovakia with Germany and Hungary in 1938. Soviets border on Poland lies about what was defined in Treaty of Versailles [3]. It does not excuse anything just show mixed things were. Have no idea about other parts of the German Soviet border [4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_border_conflicts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_bo... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Border_and_Commercial_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Border_a...
- sergeykish 6y ago
  Have you red it? My point by marshal USSR Georgy Zhukov on Moscow Victory Parade of 1945 [1]: > By the combined efforts of the great powers of the USSR, USA, UK fascist Germany was defeated in the ashes That victory was rebirth of USSR. Heroes returned home, no way to rule them as before. But wounds were not allowed to heal, 9 May become day of "we were attacked, still plenty of enemies around". Russians, Czechs, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Georgians, Moldovan (and many others) fought together. USSR attacked Czechoslovakia, Russia attacked Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine. Somehow your counterexample is loss and contribution. I never said there was not. > "turning the tide for the Russians^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H USSR" By USSR census Russians 53%, Ukrainians 21%, even Slavs would be incorrect - 78%. Census 1937 [3] was not published because of the man-made famine [4] consequences. Official position - there was no such thing. Hardly anyone knows about occupation of Poland [5], Baltic states [6] and War with Finland [7]. Could they have won war alone? No. Germans occupied a lot of industrial territories with Blitzkrieg, not enough time to restart factories [8]. Without support there would be no Moscow and Stalingrad. There would be guerilla war but that's not enough. Back to topic. In Russia it is believed that after taking Berlin soldiers should have fought Allies. That's liberation war for you. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gzZoVm-joc&t=20m23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gzZoVm-joc&t=20m23s [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1926) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1926) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939%E2%80%931945) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939%E2%... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_state... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_in_the_Soviet_Union
  - andrea_s 6y ago
    > Back to topic. In Russia it is believed that after taking Berlin soldiers should have fought Allies. That's liberation war for you. And they were not the only ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable
gdy 6y ago
"They believe USSR won WW2 by itself" Considering that about 80% of German losses happened on the Eastern front, this isn't far from the truth. Meanwhile, the White House claims that the war was won by the US and the GB [0]. And the US embassy in Denmark 'inadvertently' claims that Auschwitz was liberated by the Americans.[1] [0] https://mobile.twitter.com/whitehouse/status/1258842411524132865?lang=en https://mobile.twitter.com/whitehouse/status/125884241152413... [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/usembdenmark/status/1222249721554767872 https://mobile.twitter.com/usembdenmark/status/1222249721554...
- sergeykish 6y ago
  It is not the same don't you think? Would it be possible to feed, transport army, cover by aviation etc without support [1]? Would it be possible if there was only one front? And even if it was that is not what happened. Truth should be respected. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease --- That claim on twitter is stupid but so is "USSR only"
  - gdy 6y ago
    "Would it be possible if there was only one front?" The second front was opened only in 1944 when the outcome of the war was clear. "Truth should be respected." The truth clearly isn't respected in the West. You could see it in the American government statements, you can see that in these French polls: https://www.les-crises.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/sondage-nation-contribue-defaite-nazis.jpg https://www.les-crises.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/sondage... "That claim on twitter is stupid but so is "USSR only"" Nope, you cannot equate these two things. Again, about 80% of German divisions were destroyed by the USSR.
    - sergeykish 6y ago
      You have not answered Lend Lease point. So you fight lie with your lie. Your view is so one-sided that it is easy to accept opposite one-sided view. Not allies, not entire world - "it is all USA because USSR claims everything for itself, you can't trust these USSR liers".
gdy 6y ago
"Then they would certainly beat Japan by themself - it is just an island." Why not? It took the USSR only 11 days to defeat the Kwantung Army (0.7 million soldiers) in the Manchurian Strategic Offensive Operation. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria
- sergeykish 6y ago
  Would you want to be soviet soldier in 1942 discussing these ideas?
  - gdy 6y ago
    I suppose you would've preferred to be an American pilot dropping nuclear bombs on civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
    - sergeykish 6y ago
      I suppose you would've preferred to be in NKVD interrogating and killing harmless people by thousands
      - gdy 6y ago
        Don't see the connection.

cjblomqvist 6y ago

For anyone reading this. Sorry for no references, but it should be known (contrary the attention given by Hollywood etc) that SSR, if I'm not mistaken, did weaken Hitler before D day significantly, and were the ones turning the tide for the Russians. They also lost and killed a LOT more than the allied troops. Partly because they were more reckless with men (considered less worth compared to the allied mindset), but also because they fought more. Then, could they have won alone? No idea. Nobody knows of course. Don't buy the Hollywood perspective on WW2 without first considering that it's far from the full picture. For example, China/Japan details are not as well known in western world, but a significant situation and part of the conflict with lots of people killed, which also happened before 1939 partly. As always, it's more complicated...

celticninja 6y ago
It's not unknown that taking on Russia stretched Nazi Germany's resources. However it is also known that between 1939 and 1941 Russia and Germany had an accord and were allies. That was until Germany invaded russia is 1941. So the German army that invaded russia in 1941 had already been fighting Britain and the allied forces for 2 years, significantly weakening them and stretching their resources.
- gdy 6y ago
  "between 1939 and 1941 Russia and Germany had an accord and were allies" That's false. Russia and Germany had a non-aggression pact. Also you should read about the Munich Agreement[0], that preceded the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and clearly shown that no one was willing to fight Germany and protect Czechoslovakia besides the USSR. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement
  - celticninja 6y ago
    You say potato...
    - gdy 6y ago
      You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. The fact is that the USSR and Germany signed a non-aggression pact, not a treaty of alliance. You can read the text [0] yourself and see that there is nothing resembling a war alliance. [0] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pa...
      - eveningcoffee 6y ago
        I clearly looks like an alliance to take over other countries. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#Secret_Additional_Protocol https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pa... They even divided Poland in a coordinated attack on two fronts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military... It is not the name that matters but content and actions.
        sergeykish 6y ago
        Oh, the start of the war was awful in so many aspects, there were no rights. Second Polish Republic was aggressive state [1], [2]. It partitioned Czechoslovakia with Germany and Hungary in 1938. Soviets border on Poland lies about what was defined in Treaty of Versailles [3]. It does not excuse anything just show mixed things were. Have no idea about other parts of the German Soviet border [4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_border_conflicts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_bo... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Border_and_Commercial_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Border_a...
sergeykish 6y ago
Have you red it? My point by marshal USSR Georgy Zhukov on Moscow Victory Parade of 1945 [1]: > By the combined efforts of the great powers of the USSR, USA, UK fascist Germany was defeated in the ashes That victory was rebirth of USSR. Heroes returned home, no way to rule them as before. But wounds were not allowed to heal, 9 May become day of "we were attacked, still plenty of enemies around". Russians, Czechs, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Georgians, Moldovan (and many others) fought together. USSR attacked Czechoslovakia, Russia attacked Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine. Somehow your counterexample is loss and contribution. I never said there was not. > "turning the tide for the Russians^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H USSR" By USSR census Russians 53%, Ukrainians 21%, even Slavs would be incorrect - 78%. Census 1937 [3] was not published because of the man-made famine [4] consequences. Official position - there was no such thing. Hardly anyone knows about occupation of Poland [5], Baltic states [6] and War with Finland [7]. Could they have won war alone? No. Germans occupied a lot of industrial territories with Blitzkrieg, not enough time to restart factories [8]. Without support there would be no Moscow and Stalingrad. There would be guerilla war but that's not enough. Back to topic. In Russia it is believed that after taking Berlin soldiers should have fought Allies. That's liberation war for you. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gzZoVm-joc&t=20m23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gzZoVm-joc&t=20m23s [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1926) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1926) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937) [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939%E2%80%931945) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939%E2%... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_state... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_in_the_Soviet_Union
- andrea_s 6y ago
  > Back to topic. In Russia it is believed that after taking Berlin soldiers should have fought Allies. That's liberation war for you. And they were not the only ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable

gdy 6y ago

"They believe USSR won WW2 by itself" Considering that about 80% of German losses happened on the Eastern front, this isn't far from the truth. Meanwhile, the White House claims that the war was won by the US and the GB [0]. And the US embassy in Denmark 'inadvertently' claims that Auschwitz was liberated by the Americans.[1] [0] https://mobile.twitter.com/whitehouse/status/1258842411524132865?lang=en https://mobile.twitter.com/whitehouse/status/125884241152413... [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/usembdenmark/status/1222249721554767872 https://mobile.twitter.com/usembdenmark/status/1222249721554...

sergeykish 6y ago
It is not the same don't you think? Would it be possible to feed, transport army, cover by aviation etc without support [1]? Would it be possible if there was only one front? And even if it was that is not what happened. Truth should be respected. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease --- That claim on twitter is stupid but so is "USSR only"
- gdy 6y ago
  "Would it be possible if there was only one front?" The second front was opened only in 1944 when the outcome of the war was clear. "Truth should be respected." The truth clearly isn't respected in the West. You could see it in the American government statements, you can see that in these French polls: https://www.les-crises.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/sondage-nation-contribue-defaite-nazis.jpg https://www.les-crises.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/sondage... "That claim on twitter is stupid but so is "USSR only"" Nope, you cannot equate these two things. Again, about 80% of German divisions were destroyed by the USSR.
  - sergeykish 6y ago
    You have not answered Lend Lease point. So you fight lie with your lie. Your view is so one-sided that it is easy to accept opposite one-sided view. Not allies, not entire world - "it is all USA because USSR claims everything for itself, you can't trust these USSR liers".

gdy 6y ago

"Then they would certainly beat Japan by themself - it is just an island." Why not? It took the USSR only 11 days to defeat the Kwantung Army (0.7 million soldiers) in the Manchurian Strategic Offensive Operation. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria

sergeykish 6y ago
Would you want to be soviet soldier in 1942 discussing these ideas?
- gdy 6y ago
  I suppose you would've preferred to be an American pilot dropping nuclear bombs on civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
  - sergeykish 6y ago
    I suppose you would've preferred to be in NKVD interrogating and killing harmless people by thousands
    - gdy 6y ago
      Don't see the connection.