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> If it is shipping with Android 8 - an old version of Android Blame Qualcomm. If you’re a OEM with comparatively low volumes there is very little leverage you

> If it is shipping with Android 8 - an old version of Android Blame Qualcomm. If you’re a OEM with comparatively low volumes there is very little leverage you have to get your SOC vendor to give you the latest updates. When I worked on Android HW, Qualcomm were basically a year behind whatever the latest Android was, because our volume was so small we weren’t a priority.

scarface74 6y ago
Again, this is a solved problem with Windows - Microsoft writes drivers for popular hardware. Like I said below - Windows 7 supported my 2006 Mac Mini hardware - USB, FireWire, gigabit Ethernet, and it even recognized the IR sensor for the remote. I couldn’t find a way to use it. If you as a PC OEM, no matter how small, if you used popular components, Windows would support it.
- arsome 6y ago
  I mean if random people on XDA Developers can figure out how to port AOSP or Lineage to everything, often in the span of a few days then surely you'd think device manufacturers could too without relying on Qualcomm to do it for them.
  - close04 6y ago
    Microsoft has a vested interest in getting Windows to run on hardware going as far back as possible, within reason. They mainly sell the OS and legacy support is a huge selling point. Phone manufacturers are at the other end of the spectrum. They sell the hardware and it's their vested interest to sell as much as they can. Making it obsolete by not offering software updates and taking advantage of the free work from XDA works perfectly for them. Being able to blame Qualcomm is even better since it's a "boogieman" that doesn't need to look good for consumers.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      I’m not blaming the phone manufacturers - I am blaming Google. Apple definitely didn’t go out of its way to make sure that my 2006 era Mac Mini worked with Windows. But since back then, Apple used mostly standard PC components, MS supported it.
      - vageli 6y ago
        > I’m not blaming the phone manufacturers - I am blaming Google. Apple definitely didn’t go out of its way to make sure that my 2006 era Mac Mini worked with Windows. But since back then, Apple used mostly standard PC components, MS supported it. But Google doesn't control the hardware in the same way that Apple does. It seems odd to blame Google for the lack of hardware support when the target platforms are not homogenous and have no single entity controlling the platform.
        MiddleEndian 6y ago
        Microsoft doesn't control hardware, neither does the Linux community, yet I can run Windows and Linux on all sorts of random PC configurations. You can absolutely give Google/Android shit for this.
        kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
        PCs follow well defined standards. Embedded hardware has nothing comparable.
        scarface74 6y ago
        Yes and Microsoft/Intel defined these standards over 25 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_Plug_and_Play https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_Plug_and_Play
        ThrowawayR2 6y ago
        Actually they do. Microsoft maintains a well-defined standard and certification tests that define whether a machine is Windows compatible. The current one is the Windows HLK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Hardware_Lab_Kit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Hardware_Lab_Kit. FOSS operating systems simply ride on the coattails of that.
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    The problem is that a lot of those ports are using old kernels and various hacks that a) OEM wouldn’t want to support since it can produce unreliable results and b) may quite likely be in violation of whichever agreement they have signed with the SoC manufacturer. That said the larger OEMs could easily provide updates since they can simply compel Qualcomm to support newer kernels heck some of them like Samsung even produce their own SoCs. They don’t want too, planned obsolescence has pretty much been integrated into the android ecosystem. This is why I left it, OnePlus One was my last Android phone, iPhone 6S was my first iOS phone (I had an iPad and a iPod touch before but didn’t really used them, these were gifts and a raffle win). The iPhone 6S will still get iOS 14 this year. Overall I could sum up my Android experience as - lost weekends of tinkering with ROMs and kernels trying to get my phones in-line with new releases. Not to mention the worst shit they cam up with and that was when updates were linked to carriers so sometimes you had to wait a year to get an update if you didn’t want to risk bricking your phone by applying an update form a different region. Honestly if there was a $300 iPhone coming out each year I don’t think Android would have gotten above single digit percentage in the west. And while I’ll probably get flack here for saying this but Android is the biggest piece of shit out there not because the OS is bad but because even Google cant get their asses out of their head long enough to provide support for more than a couple of years to their own devices. And the worse thing about this is that because of how utterly garbage the Android ecosystem is we are somehow supposed to pat Apple on the back for supporting devices for 5 years.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      No. Apple supports the iPhone 6S from 2015 with the latest OS until at least September of 2021. Apple also released a point update to correct bugs in devices going back to the 2011 iPhone 4s last July. Apple supported a phone that was 8 years old.
- kcb 6y ago
  I don't think its that Microsoft writes drivers for popular hardware. It's more so that Windows has a stable binary driver abi. Windows 7 drivers will still generally work on Windows 10. In contrast the Linux kernel will happily break any binary drivers between releases.
zamalek 6y ago
Android One has solved this, but I don't think it existed in 2018.
- j45 6y ago
  Android One was on very few devices, many international ones on 2018. I do hope as Android One devices are easier for projects like LineageOS or Postmarket to support.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Not really. But even then you only get two years of guaranteed updates. https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-Android-One-program-is-a-shambles-and-here-s-why.454848.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-Android-One-program-is-a-s...
  - zamalek 6y ago
    Oh, that's a really big pity.

scarface74 6y ago

Again, this is a solved problem with Windows - Microsoft writes drivers for popular hardware. Like I said below - Windows 7 supported my 2006 Mac Mini hardware - USB, FireWire, gigabit Ethernet, and it even recognized the IR sensor for the remote. I couldn’t find a way to use it. If you as a PC OEM, no matter how small, if you used popular components, Windows would support it.

arsome 6y ago
I mean if random people on XDA Developers can figure out how to port AOSP or Lineage to everything, often in the span of a few days then surely you'd think device manufacturers could too without relying on Qualcomm to do it for them.
- close04 6y ago
  Microsoft has a vested interest in getting Windows to run on hardware going as far back as possible, within reason. They mainly sell the OS and legacy support is a huge selling point. Phone manufacturers are at the other end of the spectrum. They sell the hardware and it's their vested interest to sell as much as they can. Making it obsolete by not offering software updates and taking advantage of the free work from XDA works perfectly for them. Being able to blame Qualcomm is even better since it's a "boogieman" that doesn't need to look good for consumers.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    I’m not blaming the phone manufacturers - I am blaming Google. Apple definitely didn’t go out of its way to make sure that my 2006 era Mac Mini worked with Windows. But since back then, Apple used mostly standard PC components, MS supported it.
    - vageli 6y ago
      > I’m not blaming the phone manufacturers - I am blaming Google. Apple definitely didn’t go out of its way to make sure that my 2006 era Mac Mini worked with Windows. But since back then, Apple used mostly standard PC components, MS supported it. But Google doesn't control the hardware in the same way that Apple does. It seems odd to blame Google for the lack of hardware support when the target platforms are not homogenous and have no single entity controlling the platform.
      - MiddleEndian 6y ago
        Microsoft doesn't control hardware, neither does the Linux community, yet I can run Windows and Linux on all sorts of random PC configurations. You can absolutely give Google/Android shit for this.
        kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
        PCs follow well defined standards. Embedded hardware has nothing comparable.
        scarface74 6y ago
        Yes and Microsoft/Intel defined these standards over 25 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_Plug_and_Play https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_Plug_and_Play
        ThrowawayR2 6y ago
        Actually they do. Microsoft maintains a well-defined standard and certification tests that define whether a machine is Windows compatible. The current one is the Windows HLK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Hardware_Lab_Kit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Hardware_Lab_Kit. FOSS operating systems simply ride on the coattails of that.
- dogma1138 6y ago
  The problem is that a lot of those ports are using old kernels and various hacks that a) OEM wouldn’t want to support since it can produce unreliable results and b) may quite likely be in violation of whichever agreement they have signed with the SoC manufacturer. That said the larger OEMs could easily provide updates since they can simply compel Qualcomm to support newer kernels heck some of them like Samsung even produce their own SoCs. They don’t want too, planned obsolescence has pretty much been integrated into the android ecosystem. This is why I left it, OnePlus One was my last Android phone, iPhone 6S was my first iOS phone (I had an iPad and a iPod touch before but didn’t really used them, these were gifts and a raffle win). The iPhone 6S will still get iOS 14 this year. Overall I could sum up my Android experience as - lost weekends of tinkering with ROMs and kernels trying to get my phones in-line with new releases. Not to mention the worst shit they cam up with and that was when updates were linked to carriers so sometimes you had to wait a year to get an update if you didn’t want to risk bricking your phone by applying an update form a different region. Honestly if there was a $300 iPhone coming out each year I don’t think Android would have gotten above single digit percentage in the west. And while I’ll probably get flack here for saying this but Android is the biggest piece of shit out there not because the OS is bad but because even Google cant get their asses out of their head long enough to provide support for more than a couple of years to their own devices. And the worse thing about this is that because of how utterly garbage the Android ecosystem is we are somehow supposed to pat Apple on the back for supporting devices for 5 years.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    No. Apple supports the iPhone 6S from 2015 with the latest OS until at least September of 2021. Apple also released a point update to correct bugs in devices going back to the 2011 iPhone 4s last July. Apple supported a phone that was 8 years old.
kcb 6y ago
I don't think its that Microsoft writes drivers for popular hardware. It's more so that Windows has a stable binary driver abi. Windows 7 drivers will still generally work on Windows 10. In contrast the Linux kernel will happily break any binary drivers between releases.

zamalek 6y ago

Android One has solved this, but I don't think it existed in 2018.

j45 6y ago
Android One was on very few devices, many international ones on 2018. I do hope as Android One devices are easier for projects like LineageOS or Postmarket to support.
scarface74 6y ago
Not really. But even then you only get two years of guaranteed updates. https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-Android-One-program-is-a-shambles-and-here-s-why.454848.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-Android-One-program-is-a-s...
- zamalek 6y ago
  Oh, that's a really big pity.