3 ms·

Way back in the early 2000s, I was involved in edm event promotion, and bottle service is a thing even for people who aren’t millionaires. It was pretty normal

Way back in the early 2000s, I was involved in edm event promotion, and bottle service is a thing even for people who aren’t millionaires. It was pretty normal for like a group of 5 guys to drop $1000+ plus on a table reservation every once in a while and you do it for a few practical reasons that have nothing to do with glamour: 1) skip the line 2) Cover is included 3) regular drinks at the bar are expensive as shit anyway. 4) You have a place to sit down in a crowded club. 5) you have a server that comes to you instead of having to find a place at the bar. A regular night at the club could easily be $150 a person if you count cover, drinks and buying drugs. What’s another $100 a person for a much better experience at that point. Keeping in mind that if you don’t have a table, you’re stuck down on a crowded dance floor for hours and hours and when you aren’t fighting at a bartender to notice you.

ethanbond 6y ago
Well, “nothing to do with glamour” except insofar as the entire club scene is built on signaling glamour (status, more specifically). The whole ecosystem persists all the way down to average folks going for a night on the town and hoping to chat up a few women (who are not paid/promoted models, but have ultimately similar motives). The superficiality permeates downwards too. In my experience, the “hotter” the club, the less people dance or mingle, the more they signal. Edit: I’ll draw a somewhat bright line between clubs who offer bottle service/VIP (in my view inevitably ending up like the above^, even if it makes practical sense) and those clubs which do not. It seems to me the bulk of the money moving would be occurring in the former.
- empath75 6y ago
  Not really — some edm shows focus on the music as much or as more than the glamour — Glow in DC is one in particular that has straddled that particularly well. They have always had a lot of kids going who don’t dress up and go to dance only. And of course the underground edm shows that don’t have bottle service at all and are purely about the music. When I was talking about ‘normal’ people getting bottle service, I meant people who were there because they liked the DJ and not for all the other stuff. In my experience, most of the good parties are run by people who love dance music and know how to build a community around it. Most of them have nothing but contempt for high rollers who go to flash money around, even if they cater to them to stay in business.
  - ethanbond 6y ago
    Yeah totally agreed. I personally have not encountered a club that has bottle service/VIP that doesn’t degrade into the sort of thing described in the article. There are, of course, plenty of clubs that are entirely oriented around dancing which are great. They tend to be on the less “hot” end of the spectrum (because the term basically means status-building).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > the entire club scene is built on signaling glamour (status, more specifically) Not really sure where you're coming from? The club scene is pretty egalitarian, both in politics and practically - everyone's the same on the dance floor. The only exception is the VIP areas, and I don't think they're an essential part of the club scene.
  - ethanbond 6y ago
    There are certainly clubs that don’t fit that description, but the industry, the real bulk of the cash flow and the natural end state of most successful clubs, is a status economy. A club that can be successful and not devolve into this is an outlier that certainly takes extreme care to stay that way.
  - ryanbrunner 6y ago
    I think this is highly dependent on the club, and the scene. There are absolutely clubs that cater to people with status. It's usually obvious at first glance whether you're at a place that focuses on the music, or focuses on the high spenders in the VIP area. Hell, in Vegas the dance floors of some clubs seem almost like an afterthought.
- kristofferR 6y ago
  Yeah, that's my impression too - although it's inaccurate to say that the entire club scene is like that, there's plenty of great clubs that are about fun instead of status. I was in Miami (Beach) for a few weeks, and despite its status as a party town I like partying much more most other places. Frankly Miami as a whole was kinda sickening for its massive income disparities and how everyone seemed to aspire to become "VIP"s, both at night and in life in general. Great clubs are egalitarian, where everybody is just having fun and spreading the joy to the people around them. Unfortunately they can be hard to find without local connections, as Google often only surfaces the high status clubs.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >In my experience, the “hotter” the club, the less people dance or mingle, the more they signal. Well, dancing and mingling is about signalling status too. In the end, it's just male and female evolved monkeys doing their mating rituals...
  - ethanbond 6y ago
    Fair point! Maybe more specifically, “signaling financial status.”
    - kristofferR 6y ago
      Woah, absolutely not. People who try to signal their financial status often ends up ruining their social status by showing neediness and insecurities.
      - ethanbond 6y ago
        Not all signals are honest!
        kristofferR 6y ago
        Even if you manage to signal somehow (real or not doesn't matter) your finances, people start liking your money instead of you. The most valuable social status, the type that actually matters, is the one you get from not caring about what people think of you, having massive fun and brightening the day of the people you interact with.
        coldtea 6y ago
        >Even if you manage to signal somehow (real or not doesn't matter) your finances, people start liking your money instead of you. That's an argument about why financial status signalling is ineffective for true friendship and true happiness. Not about whether financial status signalling happens or not. Besides, many people don't care for "true friendship and true happiness" (or get that from other sources). They do their financial status signalling still, to advance themselves, have others kiss their ass, get women, and feel good by flaunting their money...

ethanbond 6y ago

Well, “nothing to do with glamour” except insofar as the entire club scene is built on signaling glamour (status, more specifically). The whole ecosystem persists all the way down to average folks going for a night on the town and hoping to chat up a few women (who are not paid/promoted models, but have ultimately similar motives). The superficiality permeates downwards too. In my experience, the “hotter” the club, the less people dance or mingle, the more they signal. Edit: I’ll draw a somewhat bright line between clubs who offer bottle service/VIP (in my view inevitably ending up like the above^, even if it makes practical sense) and those clubs which do not. It seems to me the bulk of the money moving would be occurring in the former.

empath75 6y ago
Not really — some edm shows focus on the music as much or as more than the glamour — Glow in DC is one in particular that has straddled that particularly well. They have always had a lot of kids going who don’t dress up and go to dance only. And of course the underground edm shows that don’t have bottle service at all and are purely about the music. When I was talking about ‘normal’ people getting bottle service, I meant people who were there because they liked the DJ and not for all the other stuff. In my experience, most of the good parties are run by people who love dance music and know how to build a community around it. Most of them have nothing but contempt for high rollers who go to flash money around, even if they cater to them to stay in business.
- ethanbond 6y ago
  Yeah totally agreed. I personally have not encountered a club that has bottle service/VIP that doesn’t degrade into the sort of thing described in the article. There are, of course, plenty of clubs that are entirely oriented around dancing which are great. They tend to be on the less “hot” end of the spectrum (because the term basically means status-building).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
chrisseaton 6y ago
> the entire club scene is built on signaling glamour (status, more specifically) Not really sure where you're coming from? The club scene is pretty egalitarian, both in politics and practically - everyone's the same on the dance floor. The only exception is the VIP areas, and I don't think they're an essential part of the club scene.
- ethanbond 6y ago
  There are certainly clubs that don’t fit that description, but the industry, the real bulk of the cash flow and the natural end state of most successful clubs, is a status economy. A club that can be successful and not devolve into this is an outlier that certainly takes extreme care to stay that way.
- ryanbrunner 6y ago
  I think this is highly dependent on the club, and the scene. There are absolutely clubs that cater to people with status. It's usually obvious at first glance whether you're at a place that focuses on the music, or focuses on the high spenders in the VIP area. Hell, in Vegas the dance floors of some clubs seem almost like an afterthought.
kristofferR 6y ago
Yeah, that's my impression too - although it's inaccurate to say that the entire club scene is like that, there's plenty of great clubs that are about fun instead of status. I was in Miami (Beach) for a few weeks, and despite its status as a party town I like partying much more most other places. Frankly Miami as a whole was kinda sickening for its massive income disparities and how everyone seemed to aspire to become "VIP"s, both at night and in life in general. Great clubs are egalitarian, where everybody is just having fun and spreading the joy to the people around them. Unfortunately they can be hard to find without local connections, as Google often only surfaces the high status clubs.
coldtea 6y ago
>In my experience, the “hotter” the club, the less people dance or mingle, the more they signal. Well, dancing and mingling is about signalling status too. In the end, it's just male and female evolved monkeys doing their mating rituals...
- ethanbond 6y ago
  Fair point! Maybe more specifically, “signaling financial status.”
  - kristofferR 6y ago
    Woah, absolutely not. People who try to signal their financial status often ends up ruining their social status by showing neediness and insecurities.
    - ethanbond 6y ago
      Not all signals are honest!
      - kristofferR 6y ago
        Even if you manage to signal somehow (real or not doesn't matter) your finances, people start liking your money instead of you. The most valuable social status, the type that actually matters, is the one you get from not caring about what people think of you, having massive fun and brightening the day of the people you interact with.
        coldtea 6y ago
        >Even if you manage to signal somehow (real or not doesn't matter) your finances, people start liking your money instead of you. That's an argument about why financial status signalling is ineffective for true friendship and true happiness. Not about whether financial status signalling happens or not. Besides, many people don't care for "true friendship and true happiness" (or get that from other sources). They do their financial status signalling still, to advance themselves, have others kiss their ass, get women, and feel good by flaunting their money...