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How to Learn JavaScript

157 points by victor106 6y ago

randompwd 6y ago
2013
- gokhan 6y ago
  "So here’s my experience and best advice for 2020"
  - bachmeier 6y ago
    Which is an interesting way to start a post with dozens of comments from 2013.
    - agustif 6y ago
      I blame google
- Zanni 6y ago
  Not 2013 as it references books published in 2018. This is an update to an older article. The first comment (dated 2013) cites a reference to "Javascript: The Good Parts," which isn't even mentioned in the article. I'm not sure how many times it has been updated, but the most recent update is five days ago, according to the date stamp at the top of the article.
  - ralphc 6y ago
    Some of the book recommendations seem outdated, such as Effective JavaScript, which was published in 2015, no use of any of ES6+ features. They help a lot. For modern JavaScript I'm really liking Manning Book's The Joy of JavaScript, a MEAP.
- dave_aiello 6y ago
  The author apparently saw comments that the article is dated 2013 and updated the date at the top of the page to 2020-06-22.
sitzkrieg 6y ago
is the picture at the end bait?
- unnouinceput 6y ago
  Yeah, I think so too. It was weird to see it there as it is associated with something else entirely different.
alephu5 6y ago
They don't justify any of this advice that goes against the prevailing wisdom of "just build something". Beyond some book recommendations this isn't very useful.
- watwut 6y ago
  Just build something is not prevailing wisdom and most people don't learn that way. It is non answer we give when we have no idea how to answer.
  - chaos_a 6y ago
    I personally prefer learning programming languages by making a project/program with it, it's a far more practical and interesting way of learning new programming language. I realize it's probably not the best way to learn, there's the chance of not learning a simpler or better method. But I personally just don't have the attention span to read through books or take online courses.
    - watwut 6y ago
      I think it is perfectly fine when it works for you. Also advice for programmer is different then one for newbie. One big issue with "just do something" is that people are unable to come up with suitable "something". So they don't even start. Building "something" is motivating for some people, but definitely not for all or majority. Also, people who never coded are pretty much guaranteed to drown in own mess if they attempt to do "something". They will end up with tangled spaghetti they will be unable to make work and they will not know what their issue is.
- eswat 6y ago
  If your goal is to learn something deeply and not just get something out the door, I don’t believe “just build something” is not the prevailing wisdom. Building something is a part of how you reinforce what you've learned from actual material like books, documentation and others research. You still need to know some of the basic building blocks to get started.
bharani_m 6y ago
I'd like to add a couple of resources that I've found useful - 1. All courses by Will Sentance on Frontend Masters 2. Eloquent JavaScript
andersco 6y ago
I would suggest considering many other books in addition to “the” book recommended by the author, such as Eloquent JavaScript. In fact, reading multiple books will offer multiple perspectives on the language, and result in a richer understanding. I would also suggest having an actual project in mind while learning. It can be something very simple to start, such as creating the game Tic Tac Toe. But that will force you to apply what you are learning. In other words, try writing and maybe even rewriting the project based on what you learn.
noelwelsh 6y ago
What these discussions miss is context. Every learner comes from a different background, and background effects the learning path. For example, my path for learning Typescript was: - read the Typescript documentation - read up on relatively new JS features (let, const, modules, spread operator, etc.) - recall C-style syntax and historical baggage (return, things that are statements not expressions) This took maybe a day or two, spread over some evenings. This works for me because I'm a bit of a programming language nerd, so I have a very good framework on which to hang knowledge of a new language. I also teach programming and I would never use this approach with a student who is relatively new to the field. I also wouldn't use this approach for myself if I was learning a field I'm relatively new to.
keb_ 6y ago
In case someone is clicking this with hopes of learning JavaScript, I mostly agree with the author in that it's better to learn core JavaScript before you delve into any fancy libraries, or even the DOM API (although you probably should have a grasp of HTML & CSS if you intend to do front-end development). I haven't looked into any of the resources the author has posted, but I've been compiling a list of free web books[1] for myself and friends. I highly recommend checking out either Eloquent JavaScript if you're new to programming, or MDN's Reintroduction to JavaScript or the Modern JavaScript Tutorial if you already have programming experience. [1]https://keb.now.sh/books/#javascript https://keb.now.sh/books/#javascript
- newscracker 6y ago
  Thanks a lot for the list of books on your site. I didn’t know about allaboutcircuits.com before. Now I do.
- toshk 6y ago
  Agreed. I've worked with quiete a bunch of frontend developers on react applications (with serverside rendering) who didn't realise that in the end all it does is render HTML pages. And didn't have any or much experience with old school HTML and vanilla javascript. This only became a real problem when there were edge cases or external scripts needed to be integrated that didn't fit in the framework.
  - ritchiea 6y ago
    I see these kinds of comments all the time here on HN “X developer colleague of mine was really clueless about Y technology they were using” and they are so unfathomable to me. I’ve worked with bad colleagues & people who made foolish comments but usually the worst colleagues I’ve had err on the side of immensely increasing complexity. And generally everyone I’ve worked with had a basic understanding of the tech we were using or was a junior with some curiosity. Who are these completely clueless developers? How do they get hired?
    - toshk 6y ago
paulcarroty 6y ago
> Start with the book: “Head First JavaScript Programming”. Please don't. 6yo book doesn't worth it. Even one year is a lot for modern tech. > Do Free Code Camp. Agree. Crazy good chunk of exercises, also useful for React & Node. I always recommend to get any basic video course if you learning something from zero, it helps to start fast. Avoid crazy 60+ hours all-in-one courses. Then do exercises and grab advanced books & blogs & manuals.
- yakshaving_jgt 6y ago
  JavaScript is not particularly modern. Even all the supposedly new features are copied from even older languages that are more consistent and have supported those features for decades.
- claudiusd 6y ago
  > > Start with the book: “Head First JavaScript Programming”. > Please don't. 6yo book doesn't worth it. Even one year is a lot for modern tech. I'm sorry, I know you're parroting conventional wisdom here, but have you read a book? Did you look at the table-of-contents? It looks like a great introduction to me, covering the basics that I think would be a prerequisite to learning any of the more recent language features. "Don't judge a book by its cover", as they say!
yepthatsreality 6y ago
1. Learn to read MDN and when you have a problem, don’t tell me you searched Google and searched StackOverflow And still can’t find the answer.
konaraddi 6y ago
Eloquent JavaScript (https://eloquentjavascript.net/ https://eloquentjavascript.net/) is free, up-to-date and really good too
- BlameKaneda 6y ago
  Although Eloquent JS is a great resource, I think it's best for intermediate beginners and not "beginner" beginners. It ramps up pretty quickly and can really confuse people who are just starting out.
- ElD0C 6y ago
  I'm not 100% sure who's the target audience of this book, frankly. I had the opportunity to read it some time ago and, for someone new to the language/programming, it is clearly difficult to learn from after the first few chapters.
  - mesaframe 6y ago
    I found it confusing from the perspective of a beginner and had a feeling of discontentment as an intermediate. Though some topics were elaborately expounded but some were vague or confusing.
  - RobertKerans 6y ago
    Yeah, I moderate on a forum aimed at beginner programmers undertaking a curriculum that uses JS, and they tend to find the book hard going if they attempt to work through it. I had a look at it when I was already very familiar with the language, and it definitely wasn't aimed at me. It's very nicely written (prose-wise) for a technical book (the introduction in particular is lovely), but the pacing and subject matter chosen don't really work for most people afaics
ptero 6y ago
I agree with the advice to read a few books and solve problems using core language and avoiding non-standard libraries and especially frameworks. This is important. But what much more important to me (and is often missing in this "how to learn language X") is fitting the advice to whether this is a first programming language to learn or not. If it is the first, a lot of hand-holding makes sense; reviews of good code, exercises to solve a simple problem three different ways, etc. This also helps avoid learning really bad patterns that take years to unlearn. In fact, if JS is the first language I would recommend stopping and doing something else first. Python, C, Go or Kotlin are all better in my view as a standard tools to learn the basics of statements, flow control and data types. Those already comfortable with programming will pick the basics of JS in a couple of sittings. What they need is a set of problems, both simple and more complex, that highlight the language strengths: wowing the reader with what the language makes possible with a few pages of code. Add some hints and let experienced developer explore. Everyone is different, but this works best for me. My 2c.
- AgentMatt 6y ago
  Do you happen to have pointers so a set of such problems?
  - grenoire 6y ago
    Not OP but I found his sentiments to match mine when I worked through Learn Rust With Entirely Too Many Linked Lists (https://rust-unofficial.github.io/too-many-lists/ https://rust-unofficial.github.io/too-many-lists/).
  - ptero 6y ago
    I do not have a well-organized one, especially specific to JS. I have my favorite set that I personally like over the years. I think at least a couple are from "The Practice of Programming" by Kernighan and Pike; I especially like the Markov-style text generator -- their well-written solution for the same problem in Java, C++, Perl and Awk provides a good perspective, too. Since my background is in math I like prime decompositions, Lissajous curves, drawing fractals, building mazes. But those are just personal preferences suitable to many general-purpose languages.
jostylr 6y ago
JavaScript: The Definitive Guide 7th edition (2020) by David Flanagan is well worth a look for a thorough understanding of the language that includes fundamentals. Not sure if a total beginner should look at it (I got started with 5th edition and it was really useful, but I was already comfortable coding), but it does seem quite suitable for a deep dive once some basics are known.
- mattbee 6y ago
  Seconded! After years of ignoring Javascript, I'm relieved at how this book brings it all together - explains the whole language, modules, and puts the ugly/avoidable bits of language history in context. I agree it's only a book you'd want to learn from if you already know another language - it's a terse, conceptual ground-up description.
- FreezerburnV 6y ago
  Do you have a recommendation for learning HTML/CSS (and how it interfaces with JS) as well? JavaScript has never been a particularly hard language for me to grasp, it’s all the finicky bits of working with an actual browser that act as a deterrent for me to want to do much with browser UI. (Preferably the way to learn this would be based on standards that are generally implemented or have carve outs for how engines might behave slightly differently. I’ve wanted to do some things with Electron so I only have a single target to care about, but that barrier is still there to even begin to understand how to lay stuff out even with something like FlexBox) EDIT: Also if you know any resources for writing high performance JS, that would be appreciate too. Not necessarily just number crunching optimizations, but also working with (potentially large) strings/Unicode. I’ve worked on something that might need to parse tens of megabytes of a simple plain text format including dates and likely (complex) Unicode characters, so making that as fast as possible is important to me. (I got it down to like 500ms for 30-40MB I’d text but I think I managed faster with a version on the JVM, with both being single threaded)
  - mesaframe 6y ago
    >Not necessarily just number crunching optimizations JavaScript is not the language for that objective anyway. So, No! It's all about I/O.
mayankkaizen 6y ago
For beginners, JavaScript.info is surprisingly amazing resource. I found it better than Eloquent JS.
- mthoms 6y ago
  Same here. I'm new-ish to JS and have JavaScript.info tab pinned for occasional reference. Fantastic resource.
- RMPR 6y ago
  The mind blowing resource for me was the "You don't know JS" series
diablo1 6y ago
I'm an oldskool dev who shys away from 'the new shiny' because I've learned the basics of JS and you can get pretty far with the fundamentals, despite the allure of these rather expressive frameworks that get released every week now. Frankly I get more joy out of writing bookmarklets, Tampermonkey/Greasemonkey scripts and customizing websites with various CSS 'userstyles'. I also prefer SFTP and still enjoy uploading PHP scripts with SFTP and then building out some barebones CRUD app in my free time. Again, I shy away from the new shiny like GraphQL and things like Docker or Kubernetes etc.
- dr-detroit 6y ago
  Sounds like you hate to learn and don't work on anything important.
- ericol 6y ago
  I'm also "oldchool" in a similar vein. But. Docker, dude. Docker. For instance, yesterday a PHP tool made the HN frontpage [1] that seemed rather interesting. Problem is, it needs PHP 7.2+ and my app runs on 5.6.* What to do? (Bear in mind, 3 weeks ago I moved from Virtual Box to Docker for local dev, and my files are now in a regular folder in my machine). In this case, I just need to tell Docker to fetch the image and run it pointing to the same folder where my app is. Just a 1 line command. After that, I just need to remove the Docker image and my system is as pristine as before. I think I have itches very similar to yours (Like, I'm learning Python and all things Data Science and Machine learning related, instead of virtualenv or even *conda, I'm separating my projects using Docker), and nowadays I'm using Docker for all of'em. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23654973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23654973
  - BiteCode_dev 6y ago
    Keep in mind you should still use a venv with docker, this removes the need for sudo and won't conflict with the image system python if it has one.
    - luxurytent 6y ago
rudchenkos 6y ago
Don’t
- hnarn 6y ago
  Unless we want a web completely devoid of interactivity client-side, that’s not great advice.
miclill 6y ago
> First, it’s important to learn plain JavaScript. > Don’t depend on a library of shortcuts. JavaScript will be around for many years, while libraries and frameworks come and go every year. I agree with the last part but this is not necessarily a sufficent reason to not learn via a framework or library. I'd say it depends on the circumstances, what you want to achieve by learning JS and also what type of a learner you are.
RabbitmqGuy 6y ago
> When solving a problem, everyone will point you to some pre-made solution. > But no! Not yet! Do it the hard way. This. That is why I'm a big fan of Zed Shaw's 'learn X the hard way' method of learning
ralmidani 6y ago
I’ve developed with JS for a few years, toying with vanilla JS (and doing some small bootcamp assignments/projects with it) but for actual projects I’ve used jQuery, Ember, React, etc. I feel like I was productive and there was little I “couldn’t” do without going too far off the rails. I know how to do an AJAX request, delegate an event listener, and update the DOM, all with vanilla JS. I guess it’s useful knowledge if you’re going to build a library/framework or hand-tune a critical part of your app, but honestly I have no desire to get too comfortable with low-level JavaScript. There’s too much weird syntax and too many gotchas, although ES6+ has improved things a little. Personal preferences aside, I have some experience as a programming tutor and think pushing people to learn plain JavaScript from the start is setting them up for frustration to the point that many will quit before ever becoming proficient. Also, I learned Python before I learned JavaScript, but actually started toying with Django before I understood even a decent chunk of Python syntax. Being able to build something less trivial than “Hello World” almost right away gives positive reinforcement and encourages people to keep learning. My advice for people starting out with any language is to ask around and see if there is a framework that is 1) popular and well-supported; 2) easy to learn; 3) will get you a lot of mileage and grow with you. In the case of JavaScript, that’s React. In the case of Python, that’s Django. I’m still fairly new to Swift, but SwiftUI seems like a great way to start out with the language. Before people can become programmers, you have to get them interested in programming.
- xiodine 6y ago
  While I really support starting up with a framework, I wouldn't recommend React for someone starting out with JavaScript. React strongly recommends JSX for starters (from my limited experience with it) and also has a build system, that even if neatly abstracted away introduces a small delay and another additional thing to do before you're up and learning. Personally, I feel starting out with jQuery as a perfect introduction. There are no build tools, just a simple refresh and you see all your changes.
  - ralmidani 6y ago
    A few years ago, jQuery would have been an excellent choice, but it’s pretty dormant now, and frameworks are moving away from imperative code towards declarative code. For learning how to build very basic apps it could work, so I suppose a person could spend a few weeks with it, but I don’t think it’s a good long-term investment. If someone understands HTML they should be fine using JSX after a tutorial or two. The build system adds some friction, but with create-react-app you can get pretty far without having to understand much about build systems (and you even get auto-refresh).
barefootford 6y ago
I don’t think we should share authoritative seeming advice when the first instruction is to read a 700 page book “in a couple days”. How many non JavaScript programmers could keep up or absorb anything from that pace?
tomkinson 6y ago
For the most advanced (well explained) Javascript and all the way to Typescript and beyond, get a FrontEnd Masters subscription for a few months. Top notch teachers in all manner of content and Kyle Simpson will lay it out well in his many videos (among other great teachers like Will Sentance). The SessionStack.com and Logrocket.com blogs cover some important concepts with modern ECMAscript standards. Surma and Jake at Google are great and have a lot of YouTube resources to bite into. Maybe start with 'What the heck is the event loop anyway?' by Philip Roberts and then Jake Archibald's: 'In The Loop' to get a foundational understanding of what is happening. Javascript.info also a great text resource. You don't know Javascript also should be on your list. Honestly there are so many resources these days including specific YouTube creators but really it's more about your learning style and what works best for you.

157 points by victor106 6y ago

randompwd 6y ago

2013

gokhan 6y ago
"So here’s my experience and best advice for 2020"
- bachmeier 6y ago
  Which is an interesting way to start a post with dozens of comments from 2013.
  - agustif 6y ago
    I blame google
Zanni 6y ago
Not 2013 as it references books published in 2018. This is an update to an older article. The first comment (dated 2013) cites a reference to "Javascript: The Good Parts," which isn't even mentioned in the article. I'm not sure how many times it has been updated, but the most recent update is five days ago, according to the date stamp at the top of the article.
- ralphc 6y ago
  Some of the book recommendations seem outdated, such as Effective JavaScript, which was published in 2015, no use of any of ES6+ features. They help a lot. For modern JavaScript I'm really liking Manning Book's The Joy of JavaScript, a MEAP.
dave_aiello 6y ago
The author apparently saw comments that the article is dated 2013 and updated the date at the top of the page to 2020-06-22.

sitzkrieg 6y ago

is the picture at the end bait?

unnouinceput 6y ago
Yeah, I think so too. It was weird to see it there as it is associated with something else entirely different.

alephu5 6y ago

They don't justify any of this advice that goes against the prevailing wisdom of "just build something". Beyond some book recommendations this isn't very useful.

watwut 6y ago
Just build something is not prevailing wisdom and most people don't learn that way. It is non answer we give when we have no idea how to answer.
- chaos_a 6y ago
  I personally prefer learning programming languages by making a project/program with it, it's a far more practical and interesting way of learning new programming language. I realize it's probably not the best way to learn, there's the chance of not learning a simpler or better method. But I personally just don't have the attention span to read through books or take online courses.
  - watwut 6y ago
    I think it is perfectly fine when it works for you. Also advice for programmer is different then one for newbie. One big issue with "just do something" is that people are unable to come up with suitable "something". So they don't even start. Building "something" is motivating for some people, but definitely not for all or majority. Also, people who never coded are pretty much guaranteed to drown in own mess if they attempt to do "something". They will end up with tangled spaghetti they will be unable to make work and they will not know what their issue is.
eswat 6y ago
If your goal is to learn something deeply and not just get something out the door, I don’t believe “just build something” is not the prevailing wisdom. Building something is a part of how you reinforce what you've learned from actual material like books, documentation and others research. You still need to know some of the basic building blocks to get started.

bharani_m 6y ago

I'd like to add a couple of resources that I've found useful - 1. All courses by Will Sentance on Frontend Masters 2. Eloquent JavaScript

andersco 6y ago

I would suggest considering many other books in addition to “the” book recommended by the author, such as Eloquent JavaScript. In fact, reading multiple books will offer multiple perspectives on the language, and result in a richer understanding. I would also suggest having an actual project in mind while learning. It can be something very simple to start, such as creating the game Tic Tac Toe. But that will force you to apply what you are learning. In other words, try writing and maybe even rewriting the project based on what you learn.

noelwelsh 6y ago

What these discussions miss is context. Every learner comes from a different background, and background effects the learning path. For example, my path for learning Typescript was: - read the Typescript documentation - read up on relatively new JS features (let, const, modules, spread operator, etc.) - recall C-style syntax and historical baggage (return, things that are statements not expressions) This took maybe a day or two, spread over some evenings. This works for me because I'm a bit of a programming language nerd, so I have a very good framework on which to hang knowledge of a new language. I also teach programming and I would never use this approach with a student who is relatively new to the field. I also wouldn't use this approach for myself if I was learning a field I'm relatively new to.

keb_ 6y ago

In case someone is clicking this with hopes of learning JavaScript, I mostly agree with the author in that it's better to learn core JavaScript before you delve into any fancy libraries, or even the DOM API (although you probably should have a grasp of HTML & CSS if you intend to do front-end development). I haven't looked into any of the resources the author has posted, but I've been compiling a list of free web books[1] for myself and friends. I highly recommend checking out either Eloquent JavaScript if you're new to programming, or MDN's Reintroduction to JavaScript or the Modern JavaScript Tutorial if you already have programming experience. [1]https://keb.now.sh/books/#javascript https://keb.now.sh/books/#javascript

newscracker 6y ago
Thanks a lot for the list of books on your site. I didn’t know about allaboutcircuits.com before. Now I do.
toshk 6y ago
Agreed. I've worked with quiete a bunch of frontend developers on react applications (with serverside rendering) who didn't realise that in the end all it does is render HTML pages. And didn't have any or much experience with old school HTML and vanilla javascript. This only became a real problem when there were edge cases or external scripts needed to be integrated that didn't fit in the framework.
- ritchiea 6y ago
  I see these kinds of comments all the time here on HN “X developer colleague of mine was really clueless about Y technology they were using” and they are so unfathomable to me. I’ve worked with bad colleagues & people who made foolish comments but usually the worst colleagues I’ve had err on the side of immensely increasing complexity. And generally everyone I’ve worked with had a basic understanding of the tech we were using or was a junior with some curiosity. Who are these completely clueless developers? How do they get hired?
  - toshk 6y ago

paulcarroty 6y ago

> Start with the book: “Head First JavaScript Programming”. Please don't. 6yo book doesn't worth it. Even one year is a lot for modern tech. > Do Free Code Camp. Agree. Crazy good chunk of exercises, also useful for React & Node. I always recommend to get any basic video course if you learning something from zero, it helps to start fast. Avoid crazy 60+ hours all-in-one courses. Then do exercises and grab advanced books & blogs & manuals.

yakshaving_jgt 6y ago
JavaScript is not particularly modern. Even all the supposedly new features are copied from even older languages that are more consistent and have supported those features for decades.
claudiusd 6y ago
> > Start with the book: “Head First JavaScript Programming”. > Please don't. 6yo book doesn't worth it. Even one year is a lot for modern tech. I'm sorry, I know you're parroting conventional wisdom here, but have you read a book? Did you look at the table-of-contents? It looks like a great introduction to me, covering the basics that I think would be a prerequisite to learning any of the more recent language features. "Don't judge a book by its cover", as they say!

yepthatsreality 6y ago

1. Learn to read MDN and when you have a problem, don’t tell me you searched Google and searched StackOverflow And still can’t find the answer.

konaraddi 6y ago

Eloquent JavaScript (https://eloquentjavascript.net/ https://eloquentjavascript.net/) is free, up-to-date and really good too

BlameKaneda 6y ago
Although Eloquent JS is a great resource, I think it's best for intermediate beginners and not "beginner" beginners. It ramps up pretty quickly and can really confuse people who are just starting out.
ElD0C 6y ago
I'm not 100% sure who's the target audience of this book, frankly. I had the opportunity to read it some time ago and, for someone new to the language/programming, it is clearly difficult to learn from after the first few chapters.
- mesaframe 6y ago
  I found it confusing from the perspective of a beginner and had a feeling of discontentment as an intermediate. Though some topics were elaborately expounded but some were vague or confusing.
- RobertKerans 6y ago
  Yeah, I moderate on a forum aimed at beginner programmers undertaking a curriculum that uses JS, and they tend to find the book hard going if they attempt to work through it. I had a look at it when I was already very familiar with the language, and it definitely wasn't aimed at me. It's very nicely written (prose-wise) for a technical book (the introduction in particular is lovely), but the pacing and subject matter chosen don't really work for most people afaics

ptero 6y ago

I agree with the advice to read a few books and solve problems using core language and avoiding non-standard libraries and especially frameworks. This is important. But what much more important to me (and is often missing in this "how to learn language X") is fitting the advice to whether this is a first programming language to learn or not. If it is the first, a lot of hand-holding makes sense; reviews of good code, exercises to solve a simple problem three different ways, etc. This also helps avoid learning really bad patterns that take years to unlearn. In fact, if JS is the first language I would recommend stopping and doing something else first. Python, C, Go or Kotlin are all better in my view as a standard tools to learn the basics of statements, flow control and data types. Those already comfortable with programming will pick the basics of JS in a couple of sittings. What they need is a set of problems, both simple and more complex, that highlight the language strengths: wowing the reader with what the language makes possible with a few pages of code. Add some hints and let experienced developer explore. Everyone is different, but this works best for me. My 2c.

AgentMatt 6y ago
Do you happen to have pointers so a set of such problems?
- grenoire 6y ago
  Not OP but I found his sentiments to match mine when I worked through Learn Rust With Entirely Too Many Linked Lists (https://rust-unofficial.github.io/too-many-lists/ https://rust-unofficial.github.io/too-many-lists/).
- ptero 6y ago
  I do not have a well-organized one, especially specific to JS. I have my favorite set that I personally like over the years. I think at least a couple are from "The Practice of Programming" by Kernighan and Pike; I especially like the Markov-style text generator -- their well-written solution for the same problem in Java, C++, Perl and Awk provides a good perspective, too. Since my background is in math I like prime decompositions, Lissajous curves, drawing fractals, building mazes. But those are just personal preferences suitable to many general-purpose languages.

jostylr 6y ago

JavaScript: The Definitive Guide 7th edition (2020) by David Flanagan is well worth a look for a thorough understanding of the language that includes fundamentals. Not sure if a total beginner should look at it (I got started with 5th edition and it was really useful, but I was already comfortable coding), but it does seem quite suitable for a deep dive once some basics are known.

mattbee 6y ago
Seconded! After years of ignoring Javascript, I'm relieved at how this book brings it all together - explains the whole language, modules, and puts the ugly/avoidable bits of language history in context. I agree it's only a book you'd want to learn from if you already know another language - it's a terse, conceptual ground-up description.
FreezerburnV 6y ago
Do you have a recommendation for learning HTML/CSS (and how it interfaces with JS) as well? JavaScript has never been a particularly hard language for me to grasp, it’s all the finicky bits of working with an actual browser that act as a deterrent for me to want to do much with browser UI. (Preferably the way to learn this would be based on standards that are generally implemented or have carve outs for how engines might behave slightly differently. I’ve wanted to do some things with Electron so I only have a single target to care about, but that barrier is still there to even begin to understand how to lay stuff out even with something like FlexBox) EDIT: Also if you know any resources for writing high performance JS, that would be appreciate too. Not necessarily just number crunching optimizations, but also working with (potentially large) strings/Unicode. I’ve worked on something that might need to parse tens of megabytes of a simple plain text format including dates and likely (complex) Unicode characters, so making that as fast as possible is important to me. (I got it down to like 500ms for 30-40MB I’d text but I think I managed faster with a version on the JVM, with both being single threaded)
- mesaframe 6y ago
  >Not necessarily just number crunching optimizations JavaScript is not the language for that objective anyway. So, No! It's all about I/O.

mayankkaizen 6y ago

For beginners, JavaScript.info is surprisingly amazing resource. I found it better than Eloquent JS.

mthoms 6y ago
Same here. I'm new-ish to JS and have JavaScript.info tab pinned for occasional reference. Fantastic resource.
RMPR 6y ago
The mind blowing resource for me was the "You don't know JS" series

diablo1 6y ago

I'm an oldskool dev who shys away from 'the new shiny' because I've learned the basics of JS and you can get pretty far with the fundamentals, despite the allure of these rather expressive frameworks that get released every week now. Frankly I get more joy out of writing bookmarklets, Tampermonkey/Greasemonkey scripts and customizing websites with various CSS 'userstyles'. I also prefer SFTP and still enjoy uploading PHP scripts with SFTP and then building out some barebones CRUD app in my free time. Again, I shy away from the new shiny like GraphQL and things like Docker or Kubernetes etc.

dr-detroit 6y ago
Sounds like you hate to learn and don't work on anything important.
ericol 6y ago
I'm also "oldchool" in a similar vein. But. Docker, dude. Docker. For instance, yesterday a PHP tool made the HN frontpage [1] that seemed rather interesting. Problem is, it needs PHP 7.2+ and my app runs on 5.6.* What to do? (Bear in mind, 3 weeks ago I moved from Virtual Box to Docker for local dev, and my files are now in a regular folder in my machine). In this case, I just need to tell Docker to fetch the image and run it pointing to the same folder where my app is. Just a 1 line command. After that, I just need to remove the Docker image and my system is as pristine as before. I think I have itches very similar to yours (Like, I'm learning Python and all things Data Science and Machine learning related, instead of virtualenv or even *conda, I'm separating my projects using Docker), and nowadays I'm using Docker for all of'em. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23654973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23654973
- BiteCode_dev 6y ago
  Keep in mind you should still use a venv with docker, this removes the need for sudo and won't conflict with the image system python if it has one.
  - luxurytent 6y ago

rudchenkos 6y ago

Don’t

hnarn 6y ago
Unless we want a web completely devoid of interactivity client-side, that’s not great advice.

miclill 6y ago

> First, it’s important to learn plain JavaScript. > Don’t depend on a library of shortcuts. JavaScript will be around for many years, while libraries and frameworks come and go every year. I agree with the last part but this is not necessarily a sufficent reason to not learn via a framework or library. I'd say it depends on the circumstances, what you want to achieve by learning JS and also what type of a learner you are.

RabbitmqGuy 6y ago

> When solving a problem, everyone will point you to some pre-made solution. > But no! Not yet! Do it the hard way. This. That is why I'm a big fan of Zed Shaw's 'learn X the hard way' method of learning

ralmidani 6y ago

I’ve developed with JS for a few years, toying with vanilla JS (and doing some small bootcamp assignments/projects with it) but for actual projects I’ve used jQuery, Ember, React, etc. I feel like I was productive and there was little I “couldn’t” do without going too far off the rails. I know how to do an AJAX request, delegate an event listener, and update the DOM, all with vanilla JS. I guess it’s useful knowledge if you’re going to build a library/framework or hand-tune a critical part of your app, but honestly I have no desire to get too comfortable with low-level JavaScript. There’s too much weird syntax and too many gotchas, although ES6+ has improved things a little. Personal preferences aside, I have some experience as a programming tutor and think pushing people to learn plain JavaScript from the start is setting them up for frustration to the point that many will quit before ever becoming proficient. Also, I learned Python before I learned JavaScript, but actually started toying with Django before I understood even a decent chunk of Python syntax. Being able to build something less trivial than “Hello World” almost right away gives positive reinforcement and encourages people to keep learning. My advice for people starting out with any language is to ask around and see if there is a framework that is 1) popular and well-supported; 2) easy to learn; 3) will get you a lot of mileage and grow with you. In the case of JavaScript, that’s React. In the case of Python, that’s Django. I’m still fairly new to Swift, but SwiftUI seems like a great way to start out with the language. Before people can become programmers, you have to get them interested in programming.

xiodine 6y ago
While I really support starting up with a framework, I wouldn't recommend React for someone starting out with JavaScript. React strongly recommends JSX for starters (from my limited experience with it) and also has a build system, that even if neatly abstracted away introduces a small delay and another additional thing to do before you're up and learning. Personally, I feel starting out with jQuery as a perfect introduction. There are no build tools, just a simple refresh and you see all your changes.
- ralmidani 6y ago
  A few years ago, jQuery would have been an excellent choice, but it’s pretty dormant now, and frameworks are moving away from imperative code towards declarative code. For learning how to build very basic apps it could work, so I suppose a person could spend a few weeks with it, but I don’t think it’s a good long-term investment. If someone understands HTML they should be fine using JSX after a tutorial or two. The build system adds some friction, but with create-react-app you can get pretty far without having to understand much about build systems (and you even get auto-refresh).

barefootford 6y ago

I don’t think we should share authoritative seeming advice when the first instruction is to read a 700 page book “in a couple days”. How many non JavaScript programmers could keep up or absorb anything from that pace?

tomkinson 6y ago

For the most advanced (well explained) Javascript and all the way to Typescript and beyond, get a FrontEnd Masters subscription for a few months. Top notch teachers in all manner of content and Kyle Simpson will lay it out well in his many videos (among other great teachers like Will Sentance). The SessionStack.com and Logrocket.com blogs cover some important concepts with modern ECMAscript standards. Surma and Jake at Google are great and have a lot of YouTube resources to bite into. Maybe start with 'What the heck is the event loop anyway?' by Philip Roberts and then Jake Archibald's: 'In The Loop' to get a foundational understanding of what is happening. Javascript.info also a great text resource. You don't know Javascript also should be on your list. Honestly there are so many resources these days including specific YouTube creators but really it's more about your learning style and what works best for you.