3 ms·

> Many people haven't moved outside of "enterprise" programming languages, so they don't even realize how bad stuff like PHP is at converting business logic int

> Many people haven't moved outside of "enterprise" programming languages, so they don't even realize how bad stuff like PHP is at converting business logic into code. Try doing a real project in Kotlin if you like static types. Try Clojure or Elixir if you like dynamic types. Outside of your average copy/paste stack overflow Wordpress dev, most PHP programmers are very aware of it's flaws, and would probably welcome the chance to move on. However, the frustrating thing about the prevailing attitude is that creates a stereotype that all PHP developers are incompetent, and this stops PHP devs moving on. I've been trying for the better part of a decade to move out of PHP as my main language. I have github projects in various other languages, submitted patches to open source projects, but the above attitude means that outside of existing PHP shops, no one is interested in hiring me. I've literally had one potential job tell me that they liked my python code assignment, but they had a policy of not hiring PHP programmers. It was not an isolated incident. Given those attitudes, are you surprised PHP devs bitterly defend the language?

capableweb 6y ago
> but they had a policy of not hiring PHP programmers Sounds like you avoided a bad apple there, so silver lining and all that. If a company has a blanket ban policy based on what a programmer currently does for a living, sounds like a place where you wouldn't be able to grow and they just look at your previous experience without considering you as a person who can learn and grow. So lucky you :)
ragnese 6y ago
Hey, I'm sorry. That's awful and wildly unfair. For what it's worth, this stranger on the internet does not believe that a real PHP developer is somehow incompetent. When I said the language is horrible and you shouldn't use it or promote its use, it's not a personal attack on anyone. Most of the devs (PHP or otherwise) I've ever met have only used a subset of the 5-6 most common languages: PHP, Java/C#, JavaScript, C, Python, C++. This includes very smart, very talented developers. So that has little to do with it. But if you haven't gotten to try Swift, Rust, Go, Elixir, Clojure, OCaml, etc, you just can't realize how bad PHP and Java are. But a PHP dev defending the language is definitely counter productive to the goal of looking knowledgeable about programming. The only positive thing I can say about the language is that it handles (non)nullable types better than Java. Java's nullable references might be the worst language design decision of all typed languages.

capableweb 6y ago

> but they had a policy of not hiring PHP programmers Sounds like you avoided a bad apple there, so silver lining and all that. If a company has a blanket ban policy based on what a programmer currently does for a living, sounds like a place where you wouldn't be able to grow and they just look at your previous experience without considering you as a person who can learn and grow. So lucky you :)

ragnese 6y ago

Hey, I'm sorry. That's awful and wildly unfair. For what it's worth, this stranger on the internet does not believe that a real PHP developer is somehow incompetent. When I said the language is horrible and you shouldn't use it or promote its use, it's not a personal attack on anyone. Most of the devs (PHP or otherwise) I've ever met have only used a subset of the 5-6 most common languages: PHP, Java/C#, JavaScript, C, Python, C++. This includes very smart, very talented developers. So that has little to do with it. But if you haven't gotten to try Swift, Rust, Go, Elixir, Clojure, OCaml, etc, you just can't realize how bad PHP and Java are. But a PHP dev defending the language is definitely counter productive to the goal of looking knowledgeable about programming. The only positive thing I can say about the language is that it handles (non)nullable types better than Java. Java's nullable references might be the worst language design decision of all typed languages.