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> > the fact is... violent (fatal and nonfatal) crimes do happen at a much higher rate in poor neighborhoods > I think this statement is worth examining. Are

> > the fact is... violent (fatal and nonfatal) crimes do happen at a much higher rate in poor neighborhoods > I think this statement is worth examining. Are you trying to suggest that there are a large number of unreported, undiscovered murders in more affluent areas? Because that's one of the the kinds of violent crime that we're pretty sure happen disproportionately in poor or black communities. (you're more likely to be murdered if you're poor, and more likely to be murdered if you're black, with IIRC the richest 20% of blacks still being murdered more often than the poorest 20% of non-hispanic whites)

aeturnum 6y ago
> Are you trying to suggest that there are a large number of unreported, undiscovered murders in more affluent areas? No. I didn't mention murders - is there a reason you're focused on them? I'm saying that the same forces the put poor communities of color at risk for crime also likely disrupt the collection of statistics in more wealthy & powerful communities. This is important because both sides of the ratio matter. I believe there's more crime in vulnerable communities and I believe that we likely over-estimate how much more. This generates statistics that support the over-policing of poor communities.
- DuskStar 6y ago
  > No. I didn't mention murders - is there a reason you're focused on them? I focused on murders because the grandparent DID mention them, and because murder rate is much less exposed to reporting bias than other crimes.
  - aeturnum 6y ago
    That makes sense, but that's also why I pulled out the absolutest statement about all violent crime. I agree that murder is one of the crimes least likely to go unreported, but they are still subject to the same pressures (even if those pressures are less efficacious). I'd be interested to see, for instance, if the ratio of murders to missing people changes as you move up the socioeconomic ladder.
    - DuskStar 6y ago
      That's a ratio I'd also like to see. But there's another ratio - violent crimes per murder. If there's 100 assaults for every murder in wealthy white communities, and 100 assaults for every murder in poor black communities, that ALSO tells us something. Murders are harder to skew. That means that you should focus MORE on those statistics, not less.

aeturnum 6y ago

> Are you trying to suggest that there are a large number of unreported, undiscovered murders in more affluent areas? No. I didn't mention murders - is there a reason you're focused on them? I'm saying that the same forces the put poor communities of color at risk for crime also likely disrupt the collection of statistics in more wealthy & powerful communities. This is important because both sides of the ratio matter. I believe there's more crime in vulnerable communities and I believe that we likely over-estimate how much more. This generates statistics that support the over-policing of poor communities.

DuskStar 6y ago
> No. I didn't mention murders - is there a reason you're focused on them? I focused on murders because the grandparent DID mention them, and because murder rate is much less exposed to reporting bias than other crimes.
- aeturnum 6y ago
  That makes sense, but that's also why I pulled out the absolutest statement about all violent crime. I agree that murder is one of the crimes least likely to go unreported, but they are still subject to the same pressures (even if those pressures are less efficacious). I'd be interested to see, for instance, if the ratio of murders to missing people changes as you move up the socioeconomic ladder.
  - DuskStar 6y ago
    That's a ratio I'd also like to see. But there's another ratio - violent crimes per murder. If there's 100 assaults for every murder in wealthy white communities, and 100 assaults for every murder in poor black communities, that ALSO tells us something. Murders are harder to skew. That means that you should focus MORE on those statistics, not less.